Reject ED2K link if JIGLE returns less than 5 src. [DENIED]

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:12 am

Reject addition of ED2K link (for an episode) if JIGLE returns less than 5 complete sources for that hash.

Reason: 3 episodes so far show only one source on JIGLE and (argh!) that ONE source has been off-line for the last 2 weeks.

I'd much rather see that there is a new episode but no link yet than add the hash and ..

Maybe at the addition of a new file there could be a button like 'Releasing -requesting parteners.' that will inform releasing groups on the situation.

Powershare is a wonderfull thing.. if you mule.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:25 am

So instead of asking for resharing you want to solve your problem by creating extra work for those who add and maintain the files for you to download?
A user adding a new file would be prohibited to add the ed2k link right away. Later someone would have to edit the file. If the link is not added by the user who added the file a moderator would have to accept the change request. Of cause only if there are enough sources for the file. Otherwise the creq has to be denied and a new one has to be created, every time asking jigle for the availability of the file.
Overburdened as it already is, jigle would certainly love those extra requests.
And finding additional releasers would be much easier if there is no ed2k link given. Why should one give people information to make it easier for them to help?

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:23 pm

Executor wrote:Reject addition of ED2K link (for an episode) if JIGLE returns less than 5 complete sources for that hash.

Files are usually added on the same day they're released, there's no way jigle can show more than 4 sources for (almost) any file that is added.

Executor wrote:Reason: 3 episodes so far show only one source on JIGLE and (argh!) that ONE source has been off-line for the last 2 weeks.

"Episodes" have more than one file in most cases... plus, I doubt that jigle indexes sources on AR3

Executor wrote:I'd much rather see that there is a new episode but no link yet than add the hash and ..

Maybe at the addition of a new file there could be a button like 'Releasing -requesting parteners.' that will inform releasing groups on the situation.

You got two concepts wrong here:
1) Nearly no group releases their files on ed2k. They become available only thanks to people who get the releases elsewhere[tm] and share them on ed2k afterwards.
2) The coordination of people sharing files is usually done by other means, for example by posting a REL or REQ in the AR-forums.

------

Back to the intention of your request: How to keep people from clicking ed2k-links that have no sources?
I'd say, a possible change would be something as simple as a different image for ed2k-links noone has set to "release" or "shared".
For example:
Has sources*:

Has no sources*:

*) based on the file-states.

Elberet · Post by **Elberet** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:35 pm

@wahaha: The released/shared file stats are not reliable enough IMO. Just think about Tuel.

When he releases a file, you can usually get it faster then if it were a SR main page release, but he seems to never update his AniDB mylist... (Or at least that's what he said once in the Tenchi OVA 3 Rel thread.)

Besides, there are many people in the Anime community who create and release files from home, through their mid-bandwith DSL connections for example. If someone releases a movie in that manner, it will take at least several days until it has spread to four complete sources, and during that time the file could not be added to AniDB - even tho it is out there and is being served...

Bottomline, I don't like the idea at all.

But that's just my $0.02.

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:11 pm

Elberet wrote:@wahaha: The released/shared file stats are not reliable enough IMO. Just think about Tuel. When he releases a file, you can usually get it faster then if it were a SR main page release, but he seems to never update his AniDB mylist... (Or at least that's what he said once in the Tenchi OVA 3 Rel thread.)

I know - that's why I suggested to just change the icon (instead of removing the ed2k-link at all). It'd be just another indication of what can already be seen in the x/x/x/x-states but "translated" for newbies ^^;

I have to correct the "Back to the intention of your request"-line though: The original request was about files with "low sources" - that's clearly something that can't be done by anidb.

Elberet · Post by **Elberet** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:29 pm

wahaha wrote:It'd be just another indication of what can already be seen in the x/x/x/x-states but "translated" for newbies ^^;

It'd also be pretty misleading tho, especially for the newbies. If AniDB does too much, they might never feal a need to check out AR.

executor · Post by **executor** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:18 pm

@wahaha:
1. "Files are usually added on the same day they're released, there's no way jigle can show more than 4 sources for (almost) any file that is added."
To the best of my knowledge, when you search a file on jigle it searches it's cashed history of hashes -> hence the imediate answer. Afterwards if you request "update" it issues a search on several main ed2k servers (10 I think) hence the secondary (usually more accurate) list. However trough source exchange the initial ed2k servers initially asked broadcast the search request to all ed2k servers they have on their list (the 16.43 lugdunum does at least) and return the results to jigle. So if you refresh the jigle search page after some minutes you will have an very close to perfect image of what's out there.

2. "Episodes have more than one file in most cases... "
These ones unfortunately no.

3. "plus, I doubt that jigle indexes sources on AR3"
Again to the best of my knowledge, jigle does not need to index the AR3 server directly (that's mostly for humongous servers), it does so trough source exchange.

4. "Nearly no group releases their files on ed2k. They become available only thanks to people who get the releases elsewhere[tm] and share them on ed2k afterwards. "
Yes, naturally. That's what makes the first sharer on the ed2k a "releaser".

5. "The coordination of people sharing files is usually done by other means, for example by posting a REL or REQ in the AR-forums."
Not very long ago, a known site Sh***Rea**** lowered the bar for a release to get from forum into the database from 5 to 3 complete sources. That's why you never get weeks with 0 sources for a file when using the afore mentioned site.

@Elbert:
If a file states "partner needed" (as I was merely suggesting), not only I would know the situation but I also would be inclined to click and prioritize THAT link and NOT the previous episode wich has 100 complete sources. As a result such "exclamation marks" would help the fast distribution and (I suspect) encourage home releasing.

@Merlin:
Yes indeed it's a bit of extra work for the site. However, files that state as "shared" by 3 to 5 members and yet after days and days you find no source at all (forget about a complete one) seriously dents the whole idea. What's the point of having a database of links if those links are (true, rarely) void?

@all:
I release too, not the animedb kind of content usually but the principle is the same. I have to contact my usual partners and tell them "Download and PowerShare this file until X complete sources exist" X being usually the number of chunks in the release. Altough with PowerShare you can spread 1G really fast, we used to have the (don't worry, it doesn't exist anymore) www.takethis***.org - a page where we put ONLY those files that needed spreading. Those were the best days - 0 to 10+ complete sources in hours.

It seems I was utterly unclear, sorry:
For files that do not have a minimum of X complete sources, do not add the ed2k link AS A NORMAL link, but as a "Distress call" if you please so people that use powershare can hunt THOSE files first, on a distribution based schedule.

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:24 pm

executor wrote:@wahaha:
To the best of my knowledge, when you search a file on jigle it searches it's cashed history of hashes -> hence the imediate answer.

Newly released files(/hashes) can't be cached since they simply weren't existing before - a jigle-query would thus of course take some time and resources (from jigle).
However, I actually argued that jigle simply won't find that many sources at the time the files are added to anidb - not even for popular files.

executor wrote:However trough source exchange the initial ed2k servers initially asked broadcast the search request to all ed2k servers they have on their list (the 16.43 lugdunum does at least) and return the results to jigle.
[...]
jigle does not need to index the AR3 server directly (that's mostly for humongous servers), it does so trough source exchange.

No. Neither do lugdunum-servers exchange sources, nor does jigle use any such feature. Jigle asks each single server it knows how many sources it has for a certain file.
As jigle doesn't know AR3 (or AR3 doesn't respond to external queries, dunno), it doesn't find any sources on it.

executor wrote:2. "Episodes have more than one file in most cases... "
These ones unfortunately no.

Which ones, btw?

executor wrote:Not very long ago, a known site Sh***Rea**** [...]

You can't compare SR to AniDB... ^^;

Post by **nwa** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:42 pm

what about when the one who added the files to anidb and is the only one sharing them but on a 100mbit connection? that would be better than 20 normal german DSL sharers...

executor · Post by **executor** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:02 am

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:36 am

executor wrote:If the releasers need a hand in spreading I can only find that out in the forum, right?

Sure - if the people who have the files read that forum... ^^;
You could also try directly asking those who have the file if they'd share it. (file-specific userlist -> choose name -> "send message")

Post by **exp** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:37 am

Well,

as was already said i don't see any use in taking the availability on the ed2k network into account @ file add.
most added files are brand new, so there will be no sources.
another thing is that searching the ed2k network is a very resource hogging task, this would slow things down dramatically.

a reshare request feature has been requested in the past and
is on the todo list.

BYe!
EXP

Reject ED2K link if JIGLE returns less than 5 src. [DENIED]

Reject ED2K link if JIGLE returns less than 5 src. [DENIED]

Re: Reject ED2K link if JIGLE returns less than 5 complete s