Suggestion for improved voting on reviews [DONE]

requiem · Post by **requiem** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:54 am

Tying in with Ultima's post, he missed out on the highly-emotional, political, and outrageous debate we had a few months ago regarding anime reviews. Therefore, looking at his response, he has mentioned the exact same system as various other contrbutors to the heated argument.

Doesn't this credit that there should be an exemption rule somewhere in the system? Okay, we all disagree, but that isn't going to get many of us reviewers what we want (since we aren't the only ones); therefore, this reviewing system as it stands will not work any better than a suggested one - we should try more things instead of arguing.

I like Ultima's idea entirely. There should be a CREQ function for this "special reviewer's pool." Basically the user gets a PM that they are in the pool. They CREQ a mod, who will then look at the reviewer's history and decide whether or not to award them the "dedicated reviewer's" status. This can also be something to earn in the award's column in MyList, and will promote others to review.

Dedicated reviewers won't get any precedence over regular ones, exept that their reviews are either off to the side or at the top of the list. I still encourage having a list of normal reviewers in the main column, organized from highest rating to lowest rating (with perhaps instead of a +10 or -10 system, doing a +10 or +0 system; all positive ratings is a much thinner and fairer spectrum.)

The dedicated reviews can be on the far right-hand side, usually where hardly anything is anyways in the anidb database (except on the main page

). Basically, have two columns: one for normal (arranged by vote value), and one for dedicated (arranged alphabetically). Or we can switch them around - the ideology here is to give others an opportunity to show their reviews, while displaying a section exempt for those who have put their guts into the reviewing system.

The only problem I can see here is if it becomes a hog on the CREQ system. This I doubt, since there is only a handful of people who countless, nonstop reviews in this site. It might be better to discuss this a little, test it, then discuss it to see how things turn out. Let's work together, people.

I also think that if we have an "animecount" and a "votecount," we could have a "reviewcount" somewhere in the database as well.

That's just nitpicking though. ^_^

Post by **nwa** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:09 am

I must admit that I stopped writing reviews mainly because I got discouraged with the high number of 'no' votes.. or rather... it was bad for my ego..
I can very well agree that some of my reviews weren't the best, but definitely not bad.. therefore a simple 'yes' 'no' system isn't actually the best way.. a numerical 0-10 rating system would've been better, just like we have for animes, groups and so on...
because well, after each review I started to wrote longer reviews using a little more 'advanced' sentences every time.. my last review was my longest... I think it's quite unique as I approached to it in a new way... and I did get some 'no' votes for it.. (you can judge for yourself, the review was about NTHT

now about the special reviewer status, as much as I like to be an even bigger elitist-asshat and I wouldn't have anything against this system... DonGato does have something against it and now I actually think he has a point.. I'm not going to quote him, just find his posts about this matter.. somewhere in the forum...

Post by **exp** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:22 pm

another idea:

Changing the yes/no vote system to a 1-10 vote system and making it non-anonymous. Meaning the owner of the review will be able to get a list of all users and their votes.
A textfield could be added near the 1-10 vote dropdown which would allow the voter to add some comments to his vote.

Would that help?
Would we need a new profile setting to allow users to make their review votes anonymous again (defaults to off, such entries would then appear in the review vote overview as by user "anonymous")? (Enabling this option might i.e. enforce a non-empty vote comment field)

BYe!
EXP

Post by **PetriW** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:06 pm

That'd probably make me write more reviews again.

Post by **nwa** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:43 pm

EXP wrote:another idea:

the 1-10 voting system was MY IDEA!!111oneone

anyway.. was this really the first time this kind of system was proposed?

Post by **exp** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:08 pm

nwa wrote:the 1-10 voting system was MY IDEA!!111oneone
anyway.. was this really the first time this kind of system was proposed? :roll:

sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that it is _my_ idea.
anyway, I am not talking about a 1-10 voting system but about the combination of the points mentioned in my post.

BYe!
EXP

requiem · Post by **requiem** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:49 pm

Hmmmm....if they have an option to make it anonymous, then we are still in the same boat.

exp wrote:Would we need a new profile setting to allow users to make their review votes anonymous again (defaults to off, such entries would then appear in the review vote overview as by user "anonymous")? (Enabling this option might i.e. enforce a non-empty vote comment field)

This isn't a political website, we shouldn't have to voice our opinions silently, and I think that you should only be allowed to vote for review if you aren't afraid to be non-anonymous.

Yea, I'm cruel; but with this system someone would give me a 1, remain anonymous, then in a text field put a "Ragnarok roxxors you loser!!! stfu and don't review anymore! >:-O" and really make my day.

However, that system is still better than the one in place. So I'm for it.

Ultima · Post by **Ultima** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:27 pm

Yup, exp/nwa's suggestion sounds good. I merely proposed my idea because at anime-planet, sothis has a review forum. However, for reviewers that are trusted she allows their reviews to be actually displayed on the site, then there is the link to the forum for other reviews. I thought about something like that for AniDB because it works well at anime-planet. I never intended to be an "elitist-asshat" or whatever - just wanted people who reviewed well to recieve some sort of incentive or recognition.

Post by **nwa** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:36 pm

EXP wrote:sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that it is _my_ idea.

and I was just joking

EXP wrote:anyway, I am not talking about a 1-10 voting system but about the combination of the points mentioned in my post.

sorry, you lost me there... I need a new explanation what's the difference between having a 1-10 voting system like we have for animes etc and 'the combination of the points'

requiem wrote:Yea, I'm cruel; but with this system someone would give me a 1, remain anonymous, then in a text field put a "Ragnarok roxxors you loser!!! stfu and don't review anymore! >:-O" and really make my day.

EXP wrote:Would we need a new profile setting to allow users to make their review votes anonymous again (defaults to off, such entries would then appear in the review vote overview as by user "anonymous")? (Enabling this option might i.e. enforce a non-empty vote comment field)

you need to learn now to read, requiem... by what EXP said.. I understood that anonymous voters can't comment ...
although I have my doubts about enforcing comments.. that should be optional but I do think that voters shouldn't be anonymous

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:07 pm

nwa wrote:now about the special reviewer status, as much as I like to be an even bigger elitist-asshat and I wouldn't have anything against this system... DonGato does have something against it and now I actually think he has a point.. I'm not going to quote him, just find his posts about this matter.. somewhere in the forum...

No, I still prefer the 1-10 voting system, and please keep it anonymous for the friendship of the community. I foresee PM 'wars' and build-up hates between members because of the reviews. Why you need to know someone voted 1 or 10 for you? That's plain and simple to build-up your ego.

Post by **exp** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:19 pm

nwa wrote:sorry, you lost me there... I need a new explanation what's the difference between having a 1-10 voting system like we have for animes etc and 'the combination of the points'
...
you need to learn now to read, requiem... by what EXP said.. I understood that anonymous voters can't comment ...
although I have my doubts about enforcing comments.. that should be optional but I do think that voters shouldn't be anonymous

seems like a really lost you :P
a) I was talking about implementing a 1-10 voting system AND the other things (vote overviews, comments, ...) at the same time.
b) You got that one wrong. The idea is that anonymous users are _forced_ to provide a comment and non-anonymous users can leave the comment field blank if they want. This would force anonymous users to provide a reason for their vote. And yeah, of course someone could enter random chars into the comment field, but at least it would encourage the more cilivized anidb members to state why they didn't think the review is usefull.

BYe!
EXP

requiem · Post by **requiem** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:43 pm

@ nwa: What were you saying again about me not "reading?"

@ exp: Hopefully, they will all respond civilly.

DonGato wrote:No, I still prefer the 1-10 voting system, and please keep it anonymous for the friendship of the community. I foresee PM 'wars' and build-up hates between members because of the reviews. Why you need to know someone voted 1 or 10 for you? That's plain and simple to build-up your ego.

Ummm...I think you are confusing ego with self-esteem. Being an elitist-asshat isn't hurting anyone. Actually, most reviewers, including myself, work hard to produce good reviews while trying to remain as humble as possible. Most people who I've PMed about reviews say they stopped writing because "nobody liked their review(s)."

That's being discouraged. And there is no "exemption" that is available for them, so what's their point in writing? Do we want that?

For example, look at vivafruits. While he may an big ego and was temperamental in the AR forum, he puts forth a tremendous amount of work into his reviewing here at AniDB. He often disagrees with the general opinion of animes, but that doesn't stop him from writing. What stops him is the mob of idiots that want to tear down his self-esteem. I don't see where his bad ego would get in when it comes to being praised for criticizing popular animes.
The pool of voters has increased significantly since this system was instilled, and still there has been no improvement when it comes to intelligent voting. They don't give a damn about your ego, they want quality reviews that praise/bash what they like/don't like. While we dedicated reviewers write quality reviews, we don't chime in with the latter category - and we shouldn't have to. I still am stressing some sort of exempted group (preferably around Ultima's suggestion), but I am willing to try a 1 to 10 system in hopes that voters will be a bit more reasonable than before.

Second of all, if a PM war starts, it's simply because the members hate each other, regardless of what status they have when it comes to reviewing. Maybe you're foreseeing something, but it will happen whether or not we change the system.

Ultima · Post by **Ultima** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:00 pm

exp wrote:You got that one wrong. The idea is that anonymous users are _forced_ to provide a comment and non-anonymous users can leave the comment field blank if they want. This would force anonymous users to provide a reason for their vote. And yeah, of course someone could enter random chars into the comment field, but at least it would encourage the more cilivized anidb members to state why they didn't think the review is usefull.

BYe!
EXP

I like the idea exp.

and @ requiem: My experience with these pms is that people who don't like my reviews don't bother to get comments at all. Those that liked the effort I put into my reviews give me actual feedback. :/

Like requiem, I would prefer an exempt group of trusted reviewers, but I'm all for trying out exp's idea.

Post by **nwa** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:01 am

EXP wrote:b) You got that one wrong. The idea is that anonymous users are _forced_ to provide a comment and non-anonymous users can leave the comment field blank if they want. This would force anonymous users to provide a reason for their vote. And yeah, of course someone could enter random chars into the comment field, but at least it would encourage the more cilivized anidb members to state why they didn't think the review is usefull.

should've said it like this from the start

requiem wrote:@ nwa: What were you saying again about me not "reading?"

Shut up! Or I'll delete all your posts in this forum

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:04 pm

requiem wrote:For example, look at vivafruits. While he may an big ego and was temperamental in the AR forum, he puts forth a tremendous amount of work into his reviewing here at AniDB. He often disagrees with the general opinion of animes, but that doesn't stop him from writing. What stops him is the mob of idiots that want to tear down his self-esteem. I don't see where his bad ego would get in when it comes to being praised for criticizing popular animes.

I think is not only about him criticizing popular animes, but that they don't agree with the way he reviewed them/or the points he made. SOme of his reviews IIRC also have some kind of spoilers that is a no no IMO.

The problem is the entire system as I pointed before it was put in action. There won't be any good one. You have to live with its imperfections. What will happen is that people will still vote 1 for him and also add a nice comment like "You stupid prick" or "I don't care about your opinion" or even "sadasasdasdasdas".

I don't see a use in this, but anyway don't take me that serious. I don't like, nor use much (except some minor exceptions) this review system.

About the PM wars... well, you don't have to facilitate them and dong this is just achieving that.