Genre Discussion [DONE/DENIED]

old granted and denied feature requests

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wahaha
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Post by wahaha » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:33 am

Although weighted genres sound good (and seem to have "won" already in http://www.anidb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605), the longer the list of genres, the more work it'd be to re-classify the ~1000 animes already listed, so it'd be better to sort some out before taking the next steps. ;)

Btw... "Mahou Shojo" now! :P

Elberet
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Post by Elberet » Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:28 am

Maybe a %-rating wouldn't be so good after all then, and "points" from 1-4 would be better:
1: there's some, but it's really not important or only used for a plot device once or twice in the entire series.
2: it's there, and makes for an interesting side effect. even if you don't like this genre, you can watch the anime since this genre doesn't affect the anime too much or only few elements from the genre were actually used.
3: this genre has a major influence on the anime and is very important for the story. You'll see elements from this genre in every episode.
4: This is the primary genre for this anime. The whole series is about this.

The 4-point-rating is limited to certain "major" genres, such as Action, Adventure, Fantasy, Comedy, Historical, Drama, Romance, Mystery, Sci-Fi.

For example, Vision of Escaflowne would get 4 points for Fantasy and Adventure (it's a Fantasy Adventure after all, no?), 3 for Mecha and 2 for Romance, while OTeacher would get 4 for Romance, 3 for Drama, 2 for School and Comedy and 1 for Sci-Fi.
nwa wrote:bout the % thingie now, I think only the one who has seen the anime and is an otaku who can accurately distinguish the genre % should be allowed to set them...some fanboy n00bs might give let's say..uh..Berserk 90% of action while it really is about 55%, there is also 20% of fantasy, 15% of adventure, 5% of historical(it is in the old medieval times after all) and 5% of demons...
that shows another problem, ppl see them all differently
Yeah, that's a problem and maybe a good reason to abandon the percentages in favor of a system with less possible values and more meaningful differences between the possible ratings. (See above.) However, the problem remains that not all users are qualified to tell which genres a certain anime is in, so setting the genres should either be moderator-only or users are "promoted" to trusted users after adding X files to the DB, being granted X creqs or having at least X files in their mylist. Then again, wouldn't that be kinda unfair and encourage abuse? :?

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:39 am

Elberet wrote:Then again, wouldn't that be kinda unfair and encourage abuse?
no..if we won't tell them :lol:

wahaha
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Post by wahaha » Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:33 am

Tsk... *goes adding 4000 files to the test-anime...*

I'm aswell in favor of a simple rating by giving the points names, so that it's easier to agree on a common level (like "(entirely/)mainly/much/some/little [genre]"), but still, the list of "real genres" and what to do with the rest should be dealt with beforehand...

Any opinions on:
- Cars (vs. Sports)
- Demons (vs. Horror/Mystery/Fantasy)
- Dementia (vs. Drama)
- Game (vs. Sports)
- Ghibli (no genre)
- Kids (about Kids? for Kids? - we had that already)
- Love Story (vs. Romance)
- Mahou Shojo (:P, look at the genre-list for Sailor Moon... :roll:)
- Martial Arts (vs. Action/Sports)
- Music (dunno)
- Samurai (vs. Historical/Action)
- School (no classic genre)
- Shoujo/Shonen (vs. other genre-indicators/Hint-functions)
- Super Power (vs. SciFi/Fantasy)
- Vampires (vs. Horror/Mystery/Fantasy)

We shouldn't only focus on what'd be easy to use for classification, but also on which genre could be useful/needed to distinguish animes for the hint-function and the advanced search.

Would one need different categories of "sports" for example to not suggest HnG (Game/Sports, Kids, School) to Initial D-fans (Cars/Sports, Action, Romance, School), or would such be sorted out by the other genres?

Iceman[grrrr]
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Post by Iceman[grrrr] » Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:02 pm

nwa wrote:action and adventure can be separated but there is hardly any animes that don't have Action as a genre, so maybe it's Action that really should be removed :)
Remember Lain ? ;)

Elberet
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Post by Elberet » Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:01 pm

wahaha wrote:Any opinions on:
Yes. ;)

Cars: at best a sub-genre, could be dropped in favor of sports. Maybe the genres system could be extended to allow a free-text classification for certain genres. Of course, that text would only be informal and couldn't be used in the hints, but it'd help nonetheless.
Demons: sub-genre for Magic, Fantasy and Horror, drop.
Dementia: What does that have to do with Drama? A character in an action anime could suffer from dementia as well. Anyway, I don't think this genre is really useful, but I don't know enough about it to come up with a verdict.
Game: good for stereotypical animes such as Yu-Gi-Oh and Beyblade. Those aren't really Sports-related, are they?
Ghibli: While animes from Ghibli are certainly special, they're not a separate genre. Drop.
Kids: Should be interpreted as "for kids" only and maybe renamed to "Young Audience" or "For Children" to make that clear. Many drama/romance animes are about but certainly not made for children.
Love Story: Drop in favor of Romance. Same thing.
Mahou Shojo: The Sailor Moon genre list is... impressive. But are there so many Magic Girl animes that a special genre is needed?
Martial Arts: Leave this. In real life movies, the "Eastern" movies are their own genre as well, I see no reason why that difference shouldn't be made for animes as well.
Music: dunno either.
Samurai: drop in favor of Martial Arts / Historical.
School: This is a must-have. Think about Azumanga Daioh.
Shoujo/Shonen: What is this anyways?
Super Power: Drop in favor of Magic (current age), Fantasy (medieval age) or Sci-Fi (future).
Magic: Rename to "Magic, ESP & Super-Powers".
Vampires: Drop, but... not sure. See below.
Horror: Are Horror animes required to be frightening or scary? Hellsing, for instance, isn't, even tho there's lots and lots of blood, gore and weird creatures.

wahaha
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Post by wahaha » Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:23 pm

IMO, Shojo and Shounen are nothing but synonyms for Romance/Drama(/Mahou Shojo!) and Ecchi/Action... and can safely be dropped.

<The "scaring exp"-part>
"For Kids" could be dropped for a general age rating (like ANN sometimes does)...
</...> j/k
Elberet wrote:Kids: Should be interpreted as "for kids" only and maybe renamed to "Young Audience"
Good idea :)
Elberet wrote:Game: good for stereotypical animes such as Yu-Gi-Oh and Beyblade. Those aren't really Sports-related, are they?
And thus HnG ends up in the same group as Pokemon... can't we call them "gotta get 'em all[tm]"-shows instead? :?
Elberet wrote:Magic: Rename to "Magic, ESP & Super-Powers".
You don't want Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto to share the same genre as DragonBall, do you? :P
Looking at the genre-lists of Magic and Super Power, I guess these two not-so-small genres should better not be merged, or they might become another "Action" (see nwa's post ^^;).
Elberet wrote:Horror: Are Horror animes required to be frightening or scary? Hellsing, for instance, isn't, even tho there's lots and lots of blood, gore and weird creatures.
Genre: "Dark"... doesn't help much I guess. The question is: Would someone who likes Horror be disappointed by Hellsing*, although it isn't scary?

(* I didn't (yet) watch that one, so I simply don't know...)
Elberet wrote:Mahou Shojo: The Sailor Moon genre list is... impressive. But are there so many Magic Girl animes that a special genre is needed?
Some Magical Girl series:
Sailor Moon, Tokyo Mew Mew, Wedding Peach, Ojamajo Doremi, Cosmic Baton Girl Comet-San, Card Captor Sakura, Magic Knight Rayearth, Pretear, Kaito Saint Tail, Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne... ;)

I think these have a certain chance of sharing the same audience, although most of them should already be linked by "Magic".

Merlin
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Post by Merlin » Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:41 pm

Just did a little search. These are the least used genres:
  • 1. Game: 1 anime
    2. Dementia: 4 animes
    3. Vampires: 5 animes
    4. Shounen: 6 animes
    5. Cars: 8 animes
    5. Yaoi: 8 animes
    6. Shoujo: 9 animes
    7. Samurai: 11 animes
Furthermore most listed genres can easily be merged with other genres. So these genres might be considered abdicable and be removed.

Elberet
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Post by Elberet » Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:27 pm

wahaha wrote:You don't want Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto to share the same genre as DragonBall, do you? :P
Father, forgive me, for I have sinned... :oops:
<Pedro>Noooo!</Pedro>

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Gambit
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Post by Gambit » Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:10 am

wahaha wrote:
Elberet wrote:Kids: Should be interpreted as "for kids" only and maybe renamed to "Young Audience"
Good idea :)
I thought 'kids' was merely meant to indicate that the anime was mainly about small kids, and doesn`t feature adults or teenagers as protagonists.
wahaha wrote:
Elberet wrote:Horror: Are Horror animes required to be frightening or scary? Hellsing, for instance, isn't, even tho there's lots and lots of blood, gore and weird creatures.
Genre: "Dark"... doesn't help much I guess. The question is: Would someone who likes Horror be disappointed by Hellsing*, although it isn't scary?
No, horror isn`t necessarily scary or frightening. For example, nearly all Stephen King`s movies/books are listed as horror, even though it`s only using 1 main idea. The green mile was listed as horror as well, just because of the unexplainable things in it. It wasn`t scary, hell, it wasn`t more drama after all - but it`s still horror. So I vote to keep it in.

mizardx
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Post by mizardx » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:22 pm

Gambit wrote:
wahaha wrote:
Elberet wrote:Kids: Should be interpreted as "for kids" only and maybe renamed to "Young Audience"
Good idea :)
I thought 'kids' was merely meant to indicate that the anime was mainly about small kids, and doesn`t feature adults or teenagers as protagonists.
Look at Chikyu Shojo Arjuna for example, it has only 2 kids in the entire serie (though more mature, phycicaly, than moust of the teenagers). The anime was probably made to teach kids about environment, although it can be entertaining for "non-kids" too.
Last edited by mizardx on Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:44 pm

Don't you dare suggest dropping Ghibli as a genre Elberet - it's practically the only one I use. And this is the most useful link in the database:
http://anidb.ath.cx/perl-bin/animedb.pl ... &notinml=1
Should really just be Ghibli productions though (plus Nausicaa obviously) rather than everything Miyazaki has ever been anywhere near.

Rar

yidaki

Re: New Genre needed

Post by yidaki » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:22 am

Elberet wrote:<sarcasm> We need a new genre called "Everything" or "Something". After all, that's what many animes seem to fit into best, considering the huge list of Genres they represent... </sarcasm>

As an example, Fushigi Yuugi is an Action, Adventure, Comedy, Fantasy, Magic and Romance anime. Based on that, what kind of anime should I expect? Wizards wandering through a desert, wasting hordes of baddies and delivering punchlines faster then fireballs while their arch-enemy comes flying on a dragon and falls in love with one of their group?

[_ _ _]

Comments, anyone?
People add genres way too easily.
If one person cracks a joke in one episode, they say its a comedy.
If they start a brawl in a bar in two episodes, they say its an action.
If they sit down and talk about what has happened in another episode, they say its drama.
People need to see the big picture.
Sure, one can like just that portion of the anime, but the genres are for describing the anime, not advertising it.

As for a feature request, this one goes under the "main genre" or "genre based on percentage" feature requests.
If one say the main genre is action, or if one say its 75% action and 25% drama, then there wouldnt be a problem like this.

yidaki

Post by yidaki » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:30 am

Gambit wrote: No, horror isn`t necessarily scary or frightening. For example, nearly all Stephen King`s movies/books are listed as horror, even though it`s only using 1 main idea. The green mile was listed as horror as well, just because of the unexplainable things in it. It wasn`t scary, hell, it wasn`t more drama after all - but it`s still horror. So I vote to keep it in.
I agree.

I usually take up the example of zombies, like in Brain Dead or Versus.
Zombies arent frightening, but they are an element of the horror genre.
Scary movies are thrillers, so if a movie has both horror elements and is scary, then its both thriller and horror.
Like the "Resident Evil" games, they are horrifying and frightening at the same time.
But in the movie "versus", there are zombies but no scary parts, more action though, so it would be horror and action.
"Brain Dead" also has zombies but no scary parts, but its laughable instead, so maybe alot of horror with a hint of parody.

Sorting the genres could fix that, i think, if the key element is horror and the sub-genre is parody, then horror comes first, and parody after, like in Brain Dead. But if the movie parodies more then just horror elements, then the Parody comes before the Horror genre.

hmm

Post by hmm » Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:34 pm

why would you need that if you have check boxes @ search
if u want to find an serie with more genre's u can specify

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