Implement locales instead of languages [DENIED]

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kidan
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Implement locales instead of languages [DENIED]

Post by kidan » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:14 am

:idea: In IRC we concluded that it would be a neat solution to some "problems" (flag-icons,...) to implement locales.

The idea is to extend the current set of languages with (some) possible dialects, which are used for subs/dubs.

example:
de_AT for Austrian
de_CH for Swiss
pt_BR for Brasilian Portuguese
en_UK for British English
en_US ...
en for general English
(en_HKDVD might be considered as well ;) )

Each of these locales should then be added as a separate entry in the language-selection (with its own flag-icon).

That way there would be some cleanup in the way languages are handled.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How to implement:
1) If the language-table is already using some lang-identifier-string, then make it locale-conform, otherwise add it.
2) (the fun part) add new locales with the corresponding flags
3) display the languages as follows in the dropdown (don't show id to the user):

Code: Select all

...
english 
  id=en
english (uk)
  id=en_UK
english (us)
  id=en_US
english (jm)
  id=en_JM
...
german
  id=de
german (at)
  id=de_AT
german (ch)
  id=de_AT
german (de) <-- might be left out, as it's the main locale
  id=de_DE
...
portuguese
  id=pt
portuguese (br)
  id=pt_BR
....
list of possible affixes (language-codes)
list of possible suffixes (country-codes)

It should not be very difficult to implement this.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By using this system we would be quite flexible and somewhat standard-conform. I think it's a clean and beatiful solution to the 'Brasilian is not an idependant language' and the 'why is the flag british'-problem as well (both were discussed here).

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:39 am

it would be more accurate, but cleaner? On the contrary, it would be messy as hell...

what's a general English, btw?

wahaha
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Post by wahaha » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:02 am

nwa wrote:it would be more accurate, but cleaner? On the contrary, it would be messy as hell...
I fully agree. I see no use in differentiating between en_uk, en_us and en - same for de_*.

More so as I know of no examples that justify the usage of locales. The portugese vs. brasilian (portugese) issue wouldn't be solved any better by this than possibly renaming the latter to "portugese (brasilian)" in the current scheme.

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exp
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Post by exp » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:45 pm

hm,

I really don't see why this should be usefull.
And I also don't think that it would make things cleaner.
The file overview on the anime page would be one big mess of different flags for the same language.

BYe!
EXP

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:06 pm

And you want to have 10 flags for the different English locales?
And that is supposed to be better? 8O
Lucky I'm not on IRC... quite weird things they discuss there. :?

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:18 pm

nah.. they must be PM'ing.. I'm on IRC 24/7 but I never see conversations like that... or I'm just so 1337 idler that I won't even notice any text :P

Skywalka
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Post by Skywalka » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:27 pm

jeez, as if the flags are a problem at the moment. We merely discussed adding NEW flags, and why the old ones were changed (US flag to UK flag). I never asked for it to be reverted, I merely wanted to talk about it.

kidan
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Post by kidan » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:55 pm

Let me restate:

I'm not in favour of adding every possible locale, but just those, which are needed.
So right now I guess we would only need pt_BR.

But if there were an de_CH-dub of an anime calling this German would be as wrong as saying en_JM is British.

@nwa: I'll pm you the log ok?

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fahrenheit
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Post by fahrenheit » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:17 am

hmm, tecnicaly you would need PT and PT_BR, cause BakaNL and lusotakus and some other groups listed actualy have portuguese translations and those are very diferent from brasilian translations, although it's the same language the grammar is diferent, expressions are diferent etc, its like the diferent versions of english, you have british english, american english and tons of variations of the same language that only share the same roots and sound totaly diferent.

So i vote in keeping the actual system.

kinglink
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Post by kinglink » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:54 am

Hint: If the grammar is different it's a different language.

Definition of language from www.m-w.com

1 a : the words, their pronunciation, and the methods of combining them used and understood by a community

That's really saying language is "words" "how you say words" and "grammar"

I think it's important to add more langauges if there's more langauges.

Btw in American English and British English there's only a few changes, there's a few sayings that don't transfer and there's a few words that don't transfer but 99 percent of the words are unilateral as is there grammar. (Pronounciation changes a bit to but as I assume we're talking about the written word it doesn't matter)

Now the only two things I think needed (except for different grammars) are "broken english" when the language is butchered (you can have a broken american or UK flag) commenly known as engrish.

And if there's a slight chance of getting japanese subs there's possibilites of needing a Romanji, Kanji (or chinese), and kana flag. But I don't know anyone who does japanese subs (unfortunatly)

But this is just my BS so if you disagree feel free to ignore.

Elberet
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Post by Elberet » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:05 am

Sorry for sounding harsh, but who cares? Anyone who has learned American English will be able to read and understand British English as well, and vice versa. As fas as Engrish is concerned: The subtitle-language field isn't supposed to judge the subtitles. If they are full of errors, the result is a bad rating for the responsible group and a lower quality rating for the file.

Skywalka
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Post by Skywalka » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:36 pm

I agree to what Elberet said.

Who cares if it is "colour" or "color" in the subtitles? Or "defence" compared to "defense"?

What really sucks is hearing a brit speak :P

So leave it as is. Hell in the end you start adding four differnet flags for switzerland - german, french, italien and switzerduitsch. That would be pretty moronic.

nich
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Post by nich » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:51 am

Uh. Grammar is different? Grammar?

Who said that?

There are slightly usage differences, but grammar is mostly the same. Officially there might be differently accepted ways of saying things, but in practice, it's all just portuguese. That or my IRC program magically translates whatever those portuguese peeps said to something I could understand. :P

It might bother people from both Portugal and Brazil due to region specific expressions and such, and that might justify having both Portuguese and Brazilian (or brasilian, if you like being picky about it) portuguese. I honestly don't care about that part.

I do care if someone starts talking about a "brazilian" language, though. But my point about this has already been made in another thread around here. ;)

Musaran
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Post by Musaran » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:55 am

Undetered by the topic age, I bump this suggestion.

I think it is a good idea to be able to specify locale variations of language.

There is a standard for that (see 4.4) with reason : Locale can be different to the point of breaking understanding.
That being said...

1) Entertainement video is not high litterature or technical stuff, the wording used tend to be universal, common vocabulary.

2) Locale specification is usefull only when localisation is 'heavy'.
But producer will likely avoid that to have just one version and reduce costs.

3) Dubbing is more locale prone than subbing (voice has accent/stress).
But anime is mostly japanese/asian... do they have significant locale ?


So in the end, maybe only a few animes designed specifically for some foreign market really need locale tag.


Note : If you think locale is insignificant, compare openings of popular series aired both in US and GB.

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Gambit
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Post by Gambit » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:46 am

Honestly, I don`t think it`s that interesting ...
I certainly don`t care about whether a fansub is made in i.e. US English, UK English or Australian English. It`s all understandable in the end.
As for the original Japanese, who would actually care? There are several characters, of which often some are from Osaka, which tends to be a hard-to-understand dialect. As for voiceactors, they`re actually chosen for their voices ;)

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