remove hentai from anime hint? [DONE]

old granted and denied feature requests

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Snakes
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Post by Snakes » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:33 pm

I wasnt thinking of adding sub genre's to hentai though, just a marker thats disregarded in search and hints, but allowed users to see how extreme the show is when they viewed the details for the hentai show. but I guess that would introduse alot of extra work for Exp. ;)

one other option though would be completly seperate hentai from the database and let it have its own section in anidb..

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:04 am

sothis wrote:since when is kgne hentai? kgne, as it turns out, is one of my highest rated series of all time. yes, there is sex, but it is tasteful and very appropriate for the series, the context, etc. unlike actual hentai, which tends to be full of either rape, incest, torture, tentacles, demon rape, or something else wonderful.

yes, in my eyes, all hentai is porn, considering it is THE SAME THING, yet animated, and sometimes even worse than real porn. difference of opinion. and obviously i am not alone in my opinion, since 95% of everyone who responded in the thread agrees it would be a nice change to the system.

and since when is it not allowed or wrong for me to not want to watch porn? look, if your idea of a saturday evening is to sit around and masturbate to people getting raped, that's your deal... but considering hentai is a completely different class of anime (=porn), it seems reasonable that there should be an option to remove it from animehint.
Well, all I can say is to each their own. I can confidently say that hentai's demographics is aimed more towards guys and not women so it's not too surprising that sothis doesn't like hentai. However, sothis stating that "yes, in my eyes, all hentai is porn, considering it is THE SAME THING, yet animated, and sometimes even worse than real porn" is completely biased and since sothis probably hasn't watched much hentai at all (from what I read) shouldn't even be making such a statement.

Hentai is considered animated porn and is better than porn because #1 porn is very boring and lacks story, #2 hentai isn't real it is fantasy, it's only animation with voice actors, #3 let me highlight again that hentai isn't real so it really can't be compared to porn which is real, and #4 unlike porn hentai is an art form, just like anime. It can be either appreciated or unappreciated by others. Additionally, to imply that women do not appreciate hentai is untrue because there is plenty of yaoi stuff out there, and I really doubt most men would watch yaoi stuff. It is true that hentai can be more graphic than porn, but that is because in my humble opinion, hentai addresses that constant male sexual drive that exists in most men. To deny that drive is simply stupid. Does this mean that stuff in hentai should be enacted in real life? Hell no. That's why it is fantasy, you can fantasize about stuff you can never ever do in real life. Plus, it has been scientifically proven time and time again that men are more visually stimulated than women, and if people can't understand that by now well... they better come back to reality.

And yes, if anyone hasn't noticed, that quote did hit a nerve, and quite frankly it is common for people that hasn't watched much H anime or read H manga to make such blind biased statements because if you watch have watched a good amount of hentai you would realize that it is different from porn. If someone hasn't watched much hentai, how can someone even intelligently comment about it? There is a good amount of hentai without all that stuff sothis was mentioning i.e. rape, incest, torture, tentacles, demon rape, or something else wonderful. Too bad you haven't seen them. For example, Gambit doesn't like all that rape, incest, torture, tentacles, demon rape, or something else wonderful stuff, but at least he realizes that not all hentai is created equal and that it isn't total porn. He even has a few titles he likes and lots that he hates. At least he took the time to explore and appreciate. And for that I respect him :)

Anyways, now that I've vented a little...

@Snakes: I thought adding subgenres would be a good idea, because like you know there are varying degrees of hentai. I think it would be beneficial to people at AniDB that watch hentai because afterall people have different tastes and should be informed. I even suggested that AniDB have some safeguard to make sure people understand that checking to enable hentai that they are legal age and blah blah, and thus the profile option. :P However, I think having hentai separated from the db would be too much coding for exp :) Though it's a nice idea if exp is up for it. :lol:

@Thread: I'm still in support for an option to remove hentai from anime hint list because I have two accounts one for just anime and another for just hentai. The hentai account does a nice job of suggesting mostly hentai titles since I've voted for only hentai stuff on it. However, on my regular non-hentai account, anime hint suggests quite a bit of hentai, and I don't want it to suggest any hentai. Like Cool Devices is #1 for some reason 8O I didn't even vote for any hentai on my non-hentai account. It must be because anime hint is trying to suggest romance/drama related stuff since that is my favorite genre :)

edit: It seems I had a few hentai votes for my regular account, but I still think anime hint is going to give me some hentai stuff -_-;; I'll see tommorow.

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Gambit
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Post by Gambit » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:19 am

Heh, Ultima on a roll ;) Let`s respond to that for a second :D
Ultima wrote:However, sothis stating that "yes, in my eyes, all hentai is porn, considering it is THE SAME THING, yet animated, and sometimes even worse than real porn" is completely biased and since sothis probably hasn't watched much hentai at all (from what I read) shouldn't even be making such a statement.
As everyone has the right to state his/her opinion (let`s not make the obvious sarcastic joke about the US this time), sothis has that as well. If she feels that hentai==pr0n, let it be. I understand your reasoning completely, Ultima, but telling people that it`s wrong to think like that is kinda recca-like ;)
But also, your reasoning doesn`t make sense either. It`s just like saying that you can`t judge murder unless you`ve tried it yourself several times. Only then you can say whether murder is good or bad. At least, according to your reasoning ;)
(Okay, that`s a bit over the top perhaps ... perhaps I should`ve used animal-sex and snuff-movies instead).

What you probably mix up here is that sothis watched a hentai and was so disgusted by it that she compares it with pr0n, which has the same degree in disgust on her list of ugly things. So, in that way it`s justified to say that she considers it the same, since they both trigger enough disgust that she will never watch any of it again. For her they`re both on the same level, so hentai==pr0n for her in terms of disgust.
And for myself, I`d rather call hentai 'pr0n with a story', so I don`t feel that offended at all with sothis saying that ;)

In the end, it all depends on your personal view. If you dislike watching sex in all ways, then your definition for pr0n will drop down to the point where you see any sex-scene.
Ultima wrote:For example, Gambit doesn't like all that rape, incest, torture, tentacles, demon rape, or something else wonderful stuff, but at least he realizes that not all hentai is created equal and that it isn't total porn. He even has a few titles he likes and lots that he hates. At least he took the time to explore and appreciate. And for that I respect him :)
Err ... how did I get involved here again? Image
The fact that I explore has mostly to do because I`m male and can handle/appreciate at least a few hentai. There are also people who believe that hentai doesn`t contain enough story to be interested in and thus leave it, knowing there won`t ever be one good enough to interest them. I`m still waiting for a few more hentai-titles which are actually good enough to make me like the story as well. For instance, Pure Mail didn`t have such a great story, but at least it had a good enough story for 2 episodes where the hentai wasn`t all over the place. And that`s what I like, when a hentai actually comes up with a story which is at least good plotwise and not only based on a single idea of a sexy scene/idea.
But then again, if you dislike seeing people have sex in the first place, such titles will also make you turn your head away or turning the tv/monitor off instead.
Knowing sothis, I know how much she likes to see (explicit) sex, so I can understand how much she feels for seeing hentai in her list :P

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:04 am

90% or more Hentai has no story or a really bad one. So we can safely say that is only porn, not even with a story. The other 10% can be highly rated and has some supporting story behind that is acceptable but that doesn't justify saying Hentai isn't porn-like.

What's the problem with that?! You're offended because people say you watch animated porn?! If so, grow a little please and try not to care about other's people opinions.

Anyway, the focus of the thread should be changed to the request: an option to filter it from the hint system. And we should stop debating about the merits of Hentai content. ;)

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Gambit
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Post by Gambit » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:35 am

DonGato wrote:90% or more Hentai has no story or a really bad one. So we can safely say that is only porn, not even with a story. The other 10% can be highly rated and has some supporting story behind that is acceptable but that doesn't justify saying Hentai isn't porn-like.
That`s your opinion, mind you ;) Compare a hentai with a real pr0n movie and you`ll see how much more (crappy) story a hentai has compared to 'real' pr0n, which doesn`t have a plot at all. Compared to that, hentai has a lot of plot. That`s my point Image

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:46 am

That's my opinion of course, as everyone else here, and that's because of that comparison I made between both styles (Porn and Hentai). As we won't agree in this that's why I said to stop it here and just discuss the request.

The only thing you know for real, is that as Porn is in a different section than Movies in your local video store, Hentai is in a different section than Anime as well. That should be enough to know they are different and so they should be treated as it. And this is not an opinion but a fact...

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Post by Skywalka » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:00 am

Gambit you make it sound like hentai is some sort of an art form just because it is animated instead of live action. Honestly dude, that's the difference between any animated series and live action and with that you would say that Bishojou Senshi Sailor Moon Live Action is not Shounen because it is Live Action. There are hundreds of porno movies out there with a real story. The only thing there is in pr0n that is not there in hentai is that there usually are movies available where you would have a loose topic and no continuing story in a 60 to 80 minute movie, but that's the same with anime since there every episode lasts for about 20 minutes. If you put them together you'd have the same... and of course there are more porno movies out there done like this because the marked for live action porno is a lot larger than the one for animated porno. But the all are just that: movies in which people are f***ing and detailed display of primary sexual organs. So honestly, just because it is painted and not just filmed it does not make hentai something else than porno, plain and straigth. You may like it more, you may consider it more of an art form than for instance a gang bang movie but as long as the same stuff happens in it, it is basically the same.

Additionally, if you say it isn't, then you'd have to admit that "Grave of the Fireflies" is not as much as a shocking movie telling people about the consequences of an atomic bombing than a live action movie like "the day after" - because GotF is drawn. The same prejudice usually present in most of the european countries where every program director thinks because something is animated, it is more harmless or not as shocking as a "real" movie.

But I agree with DonGato, let's discuss the request and not whether hentai = or != pr0n :)

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Post by Gambit » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:38 pm

@Skywalka Sorry for continuing this, but I wonder why you think I consider hentai a form of art? Image I`ve only said that most hentai has more of a story than regular pr0n. And so far in most pr0n its plot is by far not even close to the regular hentai show. Which does not indicate that I consider hentai art, I just say that, based on my experience, I believe that hentai has as much more story than pr0n as .. as .. well, it`s a hell lot more Image
What you say, it doesn`t have a continuous story in pr0n, that`s exactly what I mean. They`re usually just seperate scenes, whereas hentai has a plot in where they achieve something or work towards a goal. And spread over several episodes, the story continues instead of just starting a new sexscene. Is that art? No. Is that a story? Yes, it is.
That`s all Image
PS: I still haven`t seen any solution to the problem, which will probably lie at EXP`s door, since he has to decide whether he implements the filter or not.

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Post by Snakes » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:19 pm

Ultima: speaking of 'Cool Devices', its in my hintlist aswell, and Ive voted for uhhmm.. 4-5 hentai shows. ahh well, I guess thats the price I have to pay for voting hentai ;)

Ive seen a documentary that shows how the pornoindustry works, and in that they showed the process of making one porn movie. it was quite a laff, actually, where one guy used maybee as much as a hour typing three single A4 pages containing the whole script for a 90 minute long porno movie. some calls later that night and the next day that followed the actors came, and in less than 6-7 hours work the raw material for the movie was done which was sent for editing. the raw material spent roughly a day in editing and then was a new porn movie ready to hit the market.
honestly, I find it hard to belive that the makers of hentai shows use only three days making a new show, hentai needs alot more work, days and weeks of planning, drawing, coloring, recording and editing, then voice actors give their voice to the new show before its ready to be launched.
knowing this I find it somewhat hard to compare a porno movie with a hentai show, as the diffrence in dedication and work is so great. then again, how much planning and work is needed to make a sequel to Buttman's journey #18 (fictional) compared to make a single new episode to, lets say, Cool Devices?

Hentai is fictional and its Art compared to the flesh industry.
Hentai can do stuff the flesh industry never would even dare to think of, and thats rape, incest, molesting, murder and stuff thats even worse, and belive it or not, there are actually people out there that actually turn on on that shit. and isnt it better for us all if those guys jerk off to a hentai show rather than living out their fantasies on other people?

on topic,
whether or whether not hentai stays in hintlist I dont really care. its not a big problem for me and I'm not that easy to tip over when it comes to watching a hentai show and the show displays some bisarre cruelty. afterall, I know its just a drawed animation.. ;)

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