Anime titles connections other than prequels,sequels[DONE]

[Elias]

Some examples (only a few I've already seen) to show the problem:
'Neon Genesis Evangelion' and 'Neon Genesis Evangelion - Death',
'Rahxephon' and 'Rahxephon Tagen Hensoukyoku',
'Cowboy Bebop' and 'Cowboy Bebop - Knockin` on heaven`s door',
'Rurouni Kenshin' and 'Rurouni Kenshin - Requiem for the Restoration Royalists' (i've seen only first ep from first of this pair, but i think it relates to this two also).

This animes are strongly connected within its pairs, but ... there are definitely not prequels or sequels, so they cannot be linked in anidb now (Cowboy Bebop Knockin` on heaven`s door is currently linked as sequel, but this is wrong - its story is between some eps of Cowboy Bebop).
There should be at least 1 another type of connection for anime titles, but better two types:
- NGE and NGE Death, Rahxephon and Rahxephon Tagen ... - the seconds shares most scenes from first but have also additional scenes, endings, maybe name this type of connection: 'shares action with'
- Cowboy Bebop - Knocking at heavens door - takes action between some episodes of Cowboy Bebop (between 22 and 23 episode or something like this)
(Rurouni Kenshin - Requiem propably is also connected in same manner action with Rurouni Kenshin TV series, but i havent seen whole serie, so maybe im wrong in this), maybe name this type of connection: 'takes action within action of' (or something like that, is hard to find good description)

if it will be problem with implementing more than one new connection, there could be only one new like: 'common action/time with'.

[wahaha]

I second the request, but I have to admit that I'd prefer the relations used in ANN, as I think they're very elaborate:

part of (part of a collection/anthology)
used to make (e.g. Macross was used to make Robotech)
sequel of (direct continuation of the story)
prequel of (story that happens before the original)
spinoff of (same universe, focusing on different characters)
alternate retelling of (same basic premise but the story goes in another direction)
remake of (same core story with "new and improved" animation/music/etc)
alternate ending for (assumes same story but changes ending)
related to (exact type of relationship is unknown)

[Gambit]

Sounds interesting enough, indeed. You have my vote on this one, although I wonder if people will be able to pick the right one, when looking at the list from Wahaha

[Elias]

What is difference between:

alternate retelling of (same basic premise but the story goes in another direction)

and

alternate ending for (assumes same story but changes ending)

For me, they looks the same. First one definitions contains second.

And not all relations on this list have reverse relation.
When there is 'part of', there should be also 'contains'.
When there is 'used to make', there should be also 'was maked from'.
Anywhere this list is interesting, not ideal but good will solve most possibilities.

[wahaha]

What is difference between:

alternate retelling of (same basic premise but the story goes in another direction)

and

alternate ending for (assumes same story but changes ending)

Well, it would be more precise for EoE, as it is just an alternate ending without retelling the story needed to understand the setting.
I have to admit that I don't know any more examples than EoE, though, so if that's the only anime this would be useful for, it could be dropped in favor of an explanation in the anime's description.

And not all relations on this list have reverse relation.
When there is 'part of', there should be also 'contains'.

Come to think of it, on ANN this is used for collections like "WMT". This isn't really needed in AniDB, so I'd drop the "part of".

When there is 'used to make', there should be also 'was made from'.

Indeed.

[exp]

hm,

i like this idea.
i'll implement it as soon as we've figured out what we want to offer as possible selections.

the important thing is that we need to have both ways for each relation, so we need to think about some "reverse" relation names and descriptions.
we might also have to add some relations.

my thoughts on the stuff posted above:

>sequel of (direct continuation of the story)
>prequel of (story that happens before the original)
already implemented

>part of (part of a collection/anthology)
hm, not sure how to handle that one.
i think it would be more suiteable for actual collections, i.e. if we had a collection feature with an entry "gundam saga" every gundam anime could be "part of" that collection entry.
as for anime<->anime relation i don't know.
has anyone an example where "part of" would be usefull?
reversed: contains ... ?

>used to make (e.g. Macross was used to make Robotech)
no idea, is this meant to refer to "same style/type/characters/.." ?
can't really place this one
reversed: made from ... ?

>spinoff of (same universe, focusing on different characters)
reversed: based on ?

>alternate retelling of (same basic premise but the story goes in another direction)
pretty clear
reversed: maybe, alternate retelling

>remake of (same core story with "new and improved" animation/music/etc)
this would be dirty pair <-> dirty pair flash ?
reversed: original?

>alternate ending for (assumes same story but changes ending)
as was already said there isn't exactly much which would fit into this relation, is there? so i'd rather drop it

>related to (exact type of relationship is unknown)
hmm, i guess we'll always forget something so having this one as a fall back entry might be a good idea.
reversed: related to

someone please create a good list of pairs

BYe!
EXP

[DonGato]

I'm with this also.

The ANN-forum selections seems ok for me, but we can remove alternate ending for. part of collides with sequels/prequels IMO. We can drop it as well.

exp, what you say seems to be ok, let others choose the series.

[Iceman[grrrr]]

>spinoff of (same universe, focusing on different characters)
reversed: based on ?

I would leave spinoff for the reverse here...

>remake of (same core story with "new and improved" animation/music/etc)
this would be dirty pair <-> dirty pair flash ?
reversed: original?

well, bad exemple since Dirty Pair Flash is a direct sequel (contains a character from Dirty Pair)

Everything else is ok!

If implemented, you should add a way to post creq for those... It'll help the mods if everyone can help to clarify the db!

[exp]

Well,

I still need:

- the complete list of entries the dropdown will show and the exact naming
the list should contain a short name and a short description in brackets.
i.e. like "remake of" "(same core story with "new and improved" animation/music/etc)"
the names and descriptions should be clear enough that most ppl will know where a certain anime has to be placed.

- 2-3 anime examples for *each* relation

- a short info text which will then be displayed at the top of the page used for adding/editing/removing relations

BYe!
EXP

[SilverWordz]

These are my ideas about it. Use, abuse, or disregard them as you see fit. Some of my descriptions may be too long but its the best I can do at the moment. Hope they're clear enough. Some relationships have a little bit crossover but I think thats going to be the nature of things unless we want to expand the list of relations to a massive amount to include every single possible connection ever, or let users enter their own relationship.

sequel of (direct continuation of the story)
prequel of (story that happens before the original)
I'm guessing you don't need examples for this one.

same setting (same universe/world/reality/timeline, completely different characters)
Reverse would be the same.
Examples:

• Used for many Gundam series of which I know next to nothing about so can't give exact titles.
  Green Green OVA <-> Green Green TV

alternative setting (same characters, different universe/world/reality/timeline)
Reverse would be the same.
Examples:

• Tenchi Universe <-> All the Tenchi OVAs
  GitS Movie <-> Gits:SAC (maybe? haven't seen SAC to confirm otherwise this may go into alt version below)
  Hana Yori Dango TV <-> Hana Yori Dango Movie

Instead of a "remake" relation I came up with:
alternative version (same setting, same characters, story is told differently)
Reverse would be the same.
Examples:

• Escaflowne TV <-> Escaflowne Movie
  Evangelion TV <-> End of Eva (this one is iffy since really its only an alt ending)
  X TV <-> X Movie
  Area 88 OVA <-> Area 88 TV

character (shares one or more characters, story is unrelated)
Reverse would be the same.
Examples:

• Soultaker <-> Nurse Witch Komugi-chan Magikarte
  Record of Lodoss War (TV and OVA) <-> Legend of Crystania
  Excel Saga <-> Puni Puni Poemi (can't confirm this one since I've seen neither)
  Tenchi OVAs <-> Tenchi Muyo GXP
  Onegai Teacher <-> Onegai Twins

side story (takes place sometime during parent storyline)
Reverse would be "parent story"? [parent story (dominant storyline)]
Examples:

• Maison Ikkoku <-> Maison Ikkoku - Deserted Island
  Cowboy Bebop <-> CB: Knockin on Heaven's Door
  Rurouni Kenshin <-> RK: Requiem for the Restoration Royalists
  Kimagure Orange Road TV <-> Kimagure Orange Road OVA

summary (summarizes parent story, may contain additional stuff)
Reverse would be "parent story" again.
Examples:

• Seikai no Senki <-> Seikai no Senki Special
  Vandread <-> Vandread Taidouhen
  Vandread Second Stage <-> Vandread Gekitouhen

other or unclear (no other selection matches)
Reverse would be the same.
Examples:

• NGE <-> NGE - Death
  Macross <-> Robotech

Info text:
Please read through all the relationship choices before picking one. Try and find the one that best describes how the two animes are connected to each other. If you can't decide which best describes the relationship, please choose other or unclear.

Only add animes that have a direct relationship to each other. When dealing with Sequels and Prequels, only add the DIRECT sequel or prequel. Sequels of sequels are handled by AniDB automatically.



Well thats the best I can come up with and my brain feels fried just trying to make sense of it all. Other suggestions, modifications, or additions are of course welcome.

[Elias]

Little cutting with Ockham's razor:
'alternative setting' and 'characters' are too similar. One of them should be enough. I would leave it:

same setting (same universe/ .., action focused on different MAIN characters, but some minor (in both or only one title) characters may be shared)
Examples:
Used for many Gundam series of which I know next to nothing about so can't give exact titles.
Green Green OVA <-> Green Green TV
Onegai Teacher <-> Onegai Twins (this matches here now)

and

same characters (same characters, different universe/...)
Examples:
Soultaker <-> Nurse Witch Komugi-chan Magikarte
Record of Lodoss War (TV and OVA) <-> Legend of Crystania
Excel Saga <-> Puni Puni Poemi (can't confirm this one since I've seen neither)
Tenchi Universe <-> Tenchi Muyo GXP

I think also 'summary' can be been treated as 'aternative version'.

alternative version (same setting, same characters, same or nearly same story (can be told less or more differently))
Examples:
Escaflowne TV <-> Escaflowne Movie
X TV <-> X Movie
Area 88 OVA <-> Area 88 TV
Seikai no Senki <-> Seikai no Senki Special
Vandread <-> Vandread Taidouhen
Vandread Second Stage <-> Vandread Gekitouhen
Evangelion TV <-> Evangelion Death (this matches here)

Evangelion TV <-> End of Eva (and this one is rather prequel/sequel)

This will give shorter list:
prequel of / sequel of
side story / parent story
alternative version of
same characters
same setting
other or unclear

[DonGato]

I don't agree in removing the summary option. For sure it doesn't mean the same as an alternative version.

The rest could be ok.

[SilverWordz]

same setting (same universe/ .., action focused on different MAIN characters, but some minor (in both or only one title) characters may be shared)
Examples:
Used for many Gundam series of which I know next to nothing about so can't give exact titles.
Green Green OVA <-> Green Green TV
Onegai Teacher <-> Onegai Twins (this matches here now)

and

same characters (same characters, different universe/...)
Examples:
Soultaker <-> Nurse Witch Komugi-chan Magikarte
Record of Lodoss War (TV and OVA) <-> Legend of Crystania
Excel Saga <-> Puni Puni Poemi (can't confirm this one since I've seen neither)
Tenchi Universe <-> Tenchi Muyo GXP

Well I believe there is enough difference between the two options to make them individual. But I leave that up to the masses to decide.

Going by your suggested listing:

Record of Lodoss War (TV and OVA) <-> Legend of Crystania
Tenchi OVAs <-> Tenchi Muyo GXP (I made a mistake in my example of them above which I've fixed now)

....would both be moved to same setting, since they do exist with the same timeline and history. I believe Excel Saga <-> Puni Puni Poemi would go there as well. So then we're left with...

Soultaker <-> Nurse Witch Komugi-chan Magikarte
Tenchi Universe <-> Tenchi OVAs

....for your "same character" selection.

And where are we putting GitS Movie <-> Gits:SAC then? Probably "same character".



The "character" selection for me mostly was a substitute for "spinoff". Where only one or two characters are brought over and they can still exist in the same timeline as the original with the same history and story background but the main story focus is unrelated. You could throw them in together with "same setting" but then you lose the ability to tell the difference between animes that share the same setting and history but no characters, like some Gundam stuff, or animes that have a similar character but the setting is completely new and the story is unrelated, like Soultaker <-> Nurse Witch Komugi-chan Magikarte.


The "alternate setting" was more for full cast "spinoff" that relies on a completely new timeline and does not share the same history as the original but does include all of the original cast.

The simple fact that they don't share the same history was enough for me to want to seperate out alternate setting and character.


As for Summary, I do think that option is required. As DonGato said there's a big difference between summary and alternate version.

Also:

Evangelion TV <-> End of Eva (and this one is rather prequel/sequel)

I disagree. End of Eva is a remake of the last two episodes of the Eva tv series so therefore would fall under alternate version.

[Elias]

Well I believe there is enough difference between the two options to make them individual.

Lets see originals, i wanted to merge:

alternative setting (same characters, different universe/world/reality/timeline)
character (shares one or more characters, story is unrelated)

The difference is 'character' may be place in same universe/reality (its not written exactly) or may not? If is different reality - then it is exactly 'alternative setting', if reality is the same, characters are the same - then maybe it is rather 'side story'? The links, where only common are place or characters (but not story) is not tight - so i wanted to avoid making too many choices, leaving one where main connection between titles are their characters and another where main connection is place/reality.

Going by your suggested listing:

Its not mine list
I've copy previous (making only small changes in titles i know).

As for Summary, I do think that option is required. As DonGato said there's a big difference between summary and alternate version.

Maybe you have right. I leave that up to the masses to decide.

Evangelion TV <-> End of Eva (and this one is rather prequel/sequel)

I disagree. End of Eva is a remake of the last two episodes of the Eva tv series so therefore would fall under alternate version.

EoE fails with matching all connections, you should create one specially for this title. But if you forget last two episodes of Eva TV - is sequel.
If you dont wanted to forget them - is 'aternative story' but, only to this last two episodes, not for whole serie.

[wahaha]

Seems like the first confusions occured (with Initial D to be exact)...

I'd like to request having "parent story" (<-> "side story") changed to "side story of" and maybe aswell as "full story" (<-> "summary") to simply "summary of".

This might also help making people understand these terms better intuitively.

EDIT: Or maybe the relations just need a help-popup... ^^;