Suggestion for improved voting on reviews [DONE]

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Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:11 pm

I really don't see any "imperfections" with an exempted pool of trusted reviewers at AniDB. It works on Anime-Planet, I don't see why it can't work on AniDB. And there is plenty of room to add a right column for trusted reviewers.

edit: I review for both AniDB and Anime-Planet. I feel more comfortable reviewing for Anime-Planet because I'm not under the scrutiny of voters that vote with their feelings instead of their head which lead to low review ratings at AniDB. Like Gambit's Berserk review - there is no reason for it to be that low. Plus, requiem stated earlier last night that because of the users at AniDB, he had to be careful about saying things that "went against the flow" otherwise users would take offense and vote 'no'. Really sad imo, and regular, dedicated reviewers shouldn't be subjected to that "it goes against my opinion of the anime so I'm voting no" crap.

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:02 pm

Well, don't pay attention to them then.
Yes I see a flaw in trusted reviewers, they are trusted because of what? Because some people likes them? Who?
Anyway, that doesn't mean each review of a trusted reviewer would be good. And I don't see why they should be put before other MUCH better reviews from other people. I even voted no for a Gambit review once, because it was really bad in comparison to others. Don't ask me which one as I don't remember... now I barely vote them.

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:56 pm

DonGato wrote:Yes I see a flaw in trusted reviewers, they are trusted because of what? Because some people likes them? Who?
a review isn't really for liking or not liking.. that's the reaso why ppl often vote a no for.. a review is all about the content, does it give one enough info about different layers in anime without spoiling, it doesn't matter if a reviewer says "I didn't like this because of this and that reason" where the review readed should pay more attention to what the reviewer didn't like and why he didn't like that instead of only digesting the 'I didn't like" part..

They are trusted simply cause they know how to write reviews... the only flaw I see in this system is that the 'regular' review writers might get discouraged this way :roll:
DonGato wrote:Don't ask me which one as I don't remember... now I barely vote them.
If you barely vote now, then this matter doesn't even concern you that much.. why are you against the 'trusted reviewer' aka elite-asshat system then? :P

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requiem
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Post by requiem » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:04 pm

DonGato wrote:Well, don't pay attention to them then.
Yes I see a flaw in trusted reviewers, they are trusted because of what? Because some people likes them? Who?
Anyway, that doesn't mean each review of a trusted reviewer would be good. And I don't see why they should be put before other MUCH better reviews from other people. I even voted no for a Gambit review once, because it was really bad in comparison to others. Don't ask me which one as I don't remember... now I barely vote them.
Just making sure you understand - we aren't trying to be put BEFORE other reviewers, our reviews are set aside to the right. That way people can see good reviews just in case everything else to the left is bogus.

Second, it isn't easy to ignore what people think of your writing. Reviewing at this site is scary now, rather than interesting; because people will always judge you on the numbers first, and not your words. And as I said before, it bothers me when people see my review in the red zone. I think it should, since that's 2 hours of my life gone to shit because someone didn't like the numbers I put down. I think if you tried to write through this system first, you would know what I mean.

And no, not every review we write is good. But yes, every review we write is better than the average here at AniDB - the purpose is to write something useful and meaningful about the anime and how it was to you in 500 or more words, without spoiling. That's basically what the text underneath the vote links says in every review here. Anything in addition to that limits the pool of capable of reviews too much (and even plenty of mine.) Anything less, well forces reviewers to accept unnecessary punishment.

Therefore man, if you voted "no" for a Gambit review, you have just supported the flaw in the system we implicated...

And yes, people do like and trust our reviews. I have two friends, Warden and PaV, both at aniDB who always talk about how much they enjoy my reviewing. The same goes to maceart, vivafruits, and various other users who even review themselves.
Still, that's not the point. We here at AniDB know there is a chain of command. Trusted reviewers shouldn't get any more command; they should just be given a reward for the amount of effort they have put into making AniDB a useful, informative tool - and not forced into a competition for "the best review."

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Post by Ultima » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:29 pm

Yup, I agree again. Trusted reviewers are put off to the right side in another column, there's nothing purely "elitist" about that. Regular reviewers can even join the pool of trusted reviewers like I stated earlier. Once the write a certain number a reviews they can be rewarded or promoted or whatever.

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:45 pm

requiem wrote:Therefore man, if you voted "no" for a Gambit review, you have just supported the flaw in the system we implicated...
um.. I've voted 'no' for Gambit's review as well.. don't remember the title though... was one of his earlier reviews .. pretty short and not enough useful info :P

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requiem
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Post by requiem » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:14 pm

Well, that's reasonable, then - although I haven't seen one like that yet. :roll:

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Post by Skywalka » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:10 pm

I think that there really should be "approved" reviewers. What's the problem if EXP appoints those reviewers something like an "admin reviewer" status as long as that assures us to have at least one good review per Anime?

The Internet might be democratic, but AniDB doesn't have to be FFA when it comes to valid and good content. I don't have anything against any system that keeps the BS out of the review pages. I don't use them much, but when I read some review pages it is really annoying to read stuff that took two minutes to put together right after a thorough review which most likely took hours to write/rewrite.

As long as the reasons are documented somewhere people will understand. We all (most likely) live in democracies, not anarchies.

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Post by pelican » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

Skywalka wrote:I think that there really should be "approved" reviewers. What's the problem if EXP appoints those reviewers something like an "admin reviewer" status as long as that assures us to have at least one good review per Anime?
The problem is that good reviewers write bad reviews too, from time to time.

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requiem
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Post by requiem » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:14 am

pelican wrote:The problem is that good reviewers write bad reviews too, from time to time.
Yeah, but a bad review for this sort of reviewer would still be better than the average spam that reaches the database. :roll: I've seen Gambit write really bad reviews, but they always had content that was worth more than a review than the majority there.

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Post by Ultima » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:50 am

pelican wrote:The problem is that good reviewers write bad reviews too, from time to time.
True. But they write more good reviews than bad, and on the plus side they would contribute reviews to AniDB more than others - I really don't see the problem. People have good and bad days and sometimes they don't write their best. So what? No one is perfect, just like there isn't any anime that is perfect. There are a few reviewers at AniDB that need to recieve recognition for their better reviews instead of them getting sent to the bottom of the pile. Others that review "once in a blue moon" shouldn't recieve any special benefit because that's just being unfair. This may even give an incentive to others to contribute good reviews to AniDB more often. Just FYI, I don't even cut it to be an "exempt reviewer" because I do review, but I don't review as often as requiem, gambit, and a few others. It would be an incentive for me to write more reviews and get that exempt reviewer status :P

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Post by DonGato » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:04 am

requiem wrote:I think if you tried to write through this system first, you would know what I mean.
I already removed all the ones I did before this system was implemented. Didn't like it, didn't support it.
requiem wrote:And no, not every review we write is good. But yes, every review we write is better than the average here at AniDB
I don't agree, sorry.
requiem wrote:Therefore man, if you voted "no" for a Gambit review, you have just supported the flaw in the system we implicated...
No. I just voted no for a bad review by Gambit.
requiem wrote:And yes, people do like and trust our reviews. I have two friends, Warden and PaV, both at aniDB who always talk about how much they enjoy my reviewing.
And again your ego. If people like your reviews they won't care about being rated bad.
requiem wrote:Trusted reviewers shouldn't get any more command; they should just be given a reward for the amount of effort they have put into making AniDB a useful, informative tool - and not forced into a competition for "the best review."
World is all about competition. Don't like it... just commit sepuku!

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Post by DonGato » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:06 am

requiem wrote:
pelican wrote:The problem is that good reviewers write bad reviews too, from time to time.
Yeah, but a bad review for this sort of reviewer would still be better than the average spam that reaches the database. :roll: I've seen Gambit write really bad reviews, but they always had content that was worth more than a review than the majority there.
Well, I have yet to see a really bad review rated better than a good one. :roll:

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Post by requiem » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:35 am

DonGato wrote:
requiem wrote:And yes, people do like and trust our reviews. I have two friends, Warden and PaV, both at aniDB who always talk about how much they enjoy my reviewing.
And again your ego. If people like your reviews they won't care about being rated bad.
Damn straight my ego. People don't give a damn what I say, just the numbers I put down. I want them to hear what I say, and like other reviewers here, I understand an exempt system is the only way. (hehe, that even rhymes, so yeah! :-P)
DonGato wrote:
requiem wrote:Trusted reviewers shouldn't get any more command; they should just be given a reward for the amount of effort they have put into making AniDB a useful, informative tool - and not forced into a competition for "the best review."
World is all about competition. Don't like it... just commit sepuku!
Since when are we supposed to be in competition here at AniDB? We are supposed to be informing people, not committing suicide just because we didn't write as well as another.

Not only that, if you raise competition, you chase off potential reviewers. For example, sothis had plenty of complains about the competitiveness here, and mind you she has put together quite a tool at Anime-Planet.
The system will soon chase away any decent reviewer if it continues like this.

Also, if the system didn't work for you - why don't you at least try something new? I doubt this will affect the reviewing system as much as you think it will.

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Post by pav » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:06 am

let me second the idea of 'trusted' or 'dedicated' reviewers. i really appreciate requiem's work, because i know his reviews can be trusted... im sure there are more good, dedicated reviewers and some title 'trusted reviewer' would help me find other good reviewers as well. i would like to see their reviews at the top of the other reviews (with preferably a nice graphic/sign/logo) because they simply deserve it.
those people make anidb a whole lot better!

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