continious voting on anime eps [DONE]

[wahaha]

Both of you are right, you just talk about different things

Of course, the current restrictions for to permanent votes doesn't prevent people from deliberately choosing to vote permanently for ongoing animes without having seen all eps as long as the total-ep-count is known, but do you really mean that one shouldn't be able to vote for animes unless total-ep-count = amount of eps listed (+ files?)?
That'd be too extreme, IMO.

[Elias]

Agreed. Seeing episode does not equals to having file for this episode (and having file for episode does not equals registering this file in anidb). You can see missing episode in TV or anywhere, but not having file for them at all.
And if you have already seen 80% of episodes for title, the missing 20% rarely changes your opinion about anime ... and even if it happen and after watching them someone have arge to changing previous vote - there is option "revoke vote".

[DonGato]

Both of you are right, you just talk about different things

Of course, the current restrictions for to permanent votes doesn't prevent people from deliberately choosing to vote permanently for ongoing animes without having seen all eps as long as the total-ep-count is known, but do you really mean that one shouldn't be able to vote for animes unless total-ep-count = amount of eps listed (+ files?)?
That'd be too extreme, IMO.

Yes, I mean... if the release is not complete I wouldn't allow permanent voting. You have the temporal one until the anime is complete. Why not?

[wahaha]

Btw, as a followup to can't make some permanent votes! and to second Stray7Xi suggestion (even though it was probably me who converted these votes), I think it would be ok to "unlock" the permanent votes even for ongoing animes if they already ran very long, e.g. after 53 episodes (uh, well... 50's fine too ^^).

It sounds to me the only reason to use temporary vote is if you don't want your vote to count (which people may want at times). But with EP voting, you could quantify your vote as unfinished by just voting for those episodes. For new series, it'd make sense if a global vote would actually just count as EP votes for all the episodes currently in DB. So as more EP's are released, they aren't effected by the earlier uninformed vote.

I think that idea points in a good direction.
(*trying to think of some way to get temp votes -> ep votes -> perm votes*...)

[exp]

Yes, I mean... if the release is not complete I wouldn't allow permanent voting. You have the temporal one until the anime is complete. Why not?

bc some animes are not subbed/ripped for a long time after they finished airing. so ppl who have actually seen the entire anime might not be able to add a permanent vote for months/years.

BYe!
EXP

[egg]

No, it's not like that. Just voted permanent for Bakuretsu Tenshi that wasn't complete by any group (aired episode 2)!

All ongoing series that are not out yet should have the number of episodes be 0. Older series that have been aired or or released on media completely can have the actual number of episodes even if there number of episodes/files missing, because people could have seen things elsewhere.

Bakuretsu Tenshi looks like it should be creqed to have 0 episodes to match the logic above.

Maybe there should be a different setting that handles whether an anime has been aired/released entirely to reduce confusion on this. Once you know the rule about 0 episodes, then this is fine. But there are cases, like above, where the total number of episodes that there are going to be is known before hand and is entered... Having a separate field would limit things like permanent voting (and possibly reviews if that is implemented), but not limit the ability to enter the total number of episodes.

[DonGato]

Naaahhhh... I want to know the number of episodes for an airing anime. No way I like you suggestion!

[egg]

Naaahhhh... I want to know the number of episodes for an airing anime. No way I like you suggestion!

That's why I suggested:

Maybe there should be a different setting that handles whether an anime has been aired/released entirely to reduce confusion on this.

All it would need would be a checkbox saying:
[] Anime is incomplete, not all episodes have been aired or released (Note: An anime may have completely aired on TV, but this does not necessarily mean that there are fansubs available.)

This checkbox would affect permanent voting and potentially other logic. This would also help in flagging "New" animes that people have been requesting settings for....

[Elias]

Dissallowing permament vote for ongoing titles maybe in theory has good points, but in practice:
- long lasting (years) series even if high rated by users (they can only set temporary vote, but if number of such votes is more than 1000 it is important rating) will never (at least not before they will end - which may take another years) shown in TOP10 or any other TOP (sorting by vote doesnt not count temporary votes) or anime hinting. There are really high rated series:
Full Metal Alchemic 8.83
Naruto 8.70
One Piece 8.63
Inuyasha 8.25
Prince of Tennis 8.25
- still ongoing titles, but with already set number of episodes have possibility to vote (which gives strange results - permament rating is taken by small amount of votes taken after number of episodes is changed from 0 to number, but there is also temporary vote taken but great number of users (and IMHO it is more appriorate vote) like
Full Metal Alchemic, Bakuretsu Tenshi (currently allmost all votes are temp, but in few days it will become another 20 permament votes)
Detective Conan (now is number o episodes 0, so cannot set perm., vote, but before is has collect some permament votes)

My point of view is:
- allow setting temporary or permament votes not depending of number of episodes
- for titles having currently 0 (and those who were sometime 0 episodes, but now are not - number temporary votes is high (more than 50) and number of temp votes is greater than number of perm votes) episodes move all temporary votes back to permament votes
- for ongoing titles (with set 0 episodes or if number of episodes in anidb is lower than number set in title, like FMA: 32/52) add a warning for permament vote: this title is still ongoing, you really want to set permament vote? Or maybe you can use temporary vote instead.

[egg]

There are a few places within the system where temporary votes are not being taken into account, which partially misrepresents particular anime... I do not necessarily agree with having temporary votes in the first place, but as long as we have them, here are some suggestions on how to deal with them.

- allow setting temporary or permament votes not depending of number of episodes

I don't think making the permanent voting depend on the number of episodes is correct. As you pointed out, FMA is unfairly getting permanent votes over other incomplete series (PoT) which has 3 times as many episodes. That is why I suggested having a separate field to flag an animes as incomplete.

- for titles having currently 0 (and those who were sometime 0 episodes, but now are not - number temporary votes is high (more than 50) and number of temp votes is greater than number of perm votes) episodes move all temporary votes back to permament votes

Well this removes the point of having Temporary votes.... But it is unfair that an anime with hundreds of temporary votes doesn't get to be a top anime or represented in the search results.

One option is to have temporary votes count, but not for as much as permanent votes. So make 10 temporary votes count as a single permanent vote. So if an anime had 100 temp votes and an average of 8.5, then it would count the same as 10 perm votes with an average of 8.5. This would allow it to be a top anime and have a score in the search results, but not until it got 10 times the required minimum animes.
rating = (p_votes*p_avg + (t_votes/10)*t_avg)/(p_votes + t_votes/10)
number of votes = (p_votes + t_votes/10)

This would also allow some influence on completed animes by people who dropped the anime and put in low temporary vote.

- for ongoing titles (with set 0 episodes or if number of episodes in anidb is lower than number set in title, like FMA: 32/52) add a warning for permament vote: this title is still ongoing, you really want to set permament vote? Or maybe you can use temporary vote instead.

Well to be consistent, just don't allow temporary votes if it is incomplete, that's why we need a different field to specify the anime is incomplete.

[Elias]

This would also allow some influence on completed animes by people who dropped the anime and put in low temporary vote.

Another good reason to allow permament vote for such titles.

Well to be consistent, just don't allow temporary votes if it is incomplete, that's why we need a different field to specify the anime is incomplete.

Not it isn't consistent at all. What the point of banning from permament votes titles with still unkown number of episodes, when other titles with also have many episodes to go, are not banned. Then permament vote should be available only for ttile, who already have all episodes, and only for users, who have all episodes for title and have all of them watched.

I dont want to take temporary votes into rating, but only allow setting permament vote for titles still incomplete. I think that after watching some number of episodes is possible to grade title properly and permament independenent of fact title is ended or not. Last episode may have meaning for overall rating, but for series with 50+ episodes even best/worst latest episode rather doesnt change more overall level.

And for users who watched only few episodes and personally doesnt think it is enough to rate title properly temporary vote should stay (but temporary vote should appear at least in mylist).

Counting temporary votes to overall score may no be as good, i use temporary vote not only as temporary but also for filtering titles i dont want to appear in my Anime Hint (i set 1 for such title it doesnt mean i ever seen this and score this low).

[DonGato]

That is why I suggested having a separate field to flag an animes as incomplete.

Agree.

I would keep a list of top 10 for Permanent and Temporary as both seems to be different targets (completed vs. ongoing).

I wouldn't allow PERMANENT votes if the anime is incomplete. For me Temporary = ongoing, Permanent = complete.

I think this "SOLUTION" is bringing problems instead...