well,
there has been quite some discussion on this subject in the past.
i am aware that many ppl would like to have a way of marking animes/eps watched without actually having to add a particular file to their mylist.
be it that the anime/ep in question was watched on tv, is stored on vhs/dvd or maybe is a self ripped or corrupted file.
so i think it would be a good idea to offer ppl a way to do that.
however there are quite some catches there.
1) the anidb system is not designed to handle mylist/watched entries without any corresponding files in mylist
2) ppl are lazy. if we offer a way to add an ep to mylist without having to select an actual file version many ppl would stop to select the "real" files they have bc it seems to be too much of a hassle.
also many ppl who note that their file is not added to anidb yet might be to lazy to add the file and just select the "generic" file.
what this would lead to is that a) the user stats which provide very usefull information would become less accurate (although one could depate on this one, as there are of course also many ppl who just add a random file to mylist per ep) and b) fewer files would be added to anidb
1) could be solved by introducing dummy files which are automatically added to each episode and which would be handled exactly like normal files. they would have a size of 0 though and would be marked somehow.
2) if the anidb clients become more common this drawback might become acceptable. adding files to mylist by hash would autoselect the right files and an easy semi-automated file add for unknown files might get even lazy ppl to add new files.
so overall i do plan to implement this someday, but as i am aware of the risks such a feature would pose to anidb i'd rather wait untill most anidb users are using a client of some sort.
BYe!
EXP
Watched on TV [OLD-WAS-ONTODO]
Moderator: AniDB
<yawn>...wow, that was long.
Okay, I'm long winded, but wow. Didn't mean to offend.
Lemme start on a few things. First off, sorry it took so long to respond. I don't get out of work until 2am, and this forum was not top on my list of things to do (5:30am now, partially explains the yawn).
Second, you seem to be under the impression that I'm a NooB (that's new-bie, for any NooB's) and/or a child. Probaly from my DBZ refrence. Let me assure you that I'm neither, expecially not to either anime or fansubs. Definitions on that, well, that did kinda hurt, but forgiven. The DBZ refrence was for the simple fact that something obviously so huge is extremely easily recognizable. I personally got sick of it a while ago("you remember the time Goku came in at the nick of time and saved humanity?" Geeze. Be origional. And the names! Vegetable? Bibbity Bobbity Boo? Now come on.).
Third, I'm not angry. I was basically waiting for someone to post a conterary statement so I could prove my point easier. You just happened to be that post. It takes a lot more than a disagreement about a site that logs cartoons (intentionally watered-down, would never say anime is a Merry Melody per-se) to even make a eyebrow twitch.
Now, for the subject at hand: For anyone who wants to skip ahead, start here. Actually, I DID read your post (somehow), and DID follow that link: I do partially agree with you. But, not for the same reasons.
Yes, it does seem that the AniDB is currently centered around files. But, I only think it is because of the format the DB uses. There is no easy way to say 'yeah, I watched that' currently, sience the coding uses the file number itself to identify the episode...or something like that.
But, to me, this still seems to be a very important point. I mean, if i watched it on TV, and I watched it on a file, is there a difference in what I watched? To me, there is not. So it is just as important, to me, and probaly many others (you too, evidently, Skywalka), to include ANY ANIME you watched and not just fansubs.
One of there 'mission statements' we'll call it, is that you don't accidentally download something you've already seen, is it not? You know how much I'd like to simply note that I've seen Orphan up to episode xx on TV (gotta love cable), so I don't accidentally download the wrong episode on my computer? I mean, we don't all have 100's of gigabytes of memory to play with, or DVD drives we can write on to. I of course have neither.
So, if that truely is one of the goals of the site, they should highly consider upping that lil' option in there queue of tasks.
And, IF IT IS NOT, then they need to change there aforementioned statements leading me, and others to think such. It would be much appreciated.
Okay, the rest of you can stop here.
Um, Skywalka, when you reply to this (and I know you will, you can't help it), please don't copy/paste the whole dang long-winded message I made, respond to every sylable, and make something no one will read. If you already said twice, can we leave it there?
...and you said plenty about subs. Fansubs. That's what you said AniDB is mainly for. Did YOU read what you wrote?
Okay, I'm long winded, but wow. Didn't mean to offend.
Lemme start on a few things. First off, sorry it took so long to respond. I don't get out of work until 2am, and this forum was not top on my list of things to do (5:30am now, partially explains the yawn).
Second, you seem to be under the impression that I'm a NooB (that's new-bie, for any NooB's) and/or a child. Probaly from my DBZ refrence. Let me assure you that I'm neither, expecially not to either anime or fansubs. Definitions on that, well, that did kinda hurt, but forgiven. The DBZ refrence was for the simple fact that something obviously so huge is extremely easily recognizable. I personally got sick of it a while ago("you remember the time Goku came in at the nick of time and saved humanity?" Geeze. Be origional. And the names! Vegetable? Bibbity Bobbity Boo? Now come on.).
Third, I'm not angry. I was basically waiting for someone to post a conterary statement so I could prove my point easier. You just happened to be that post. It takes a lot more than a disagreement about a site that logs cartoons (intentionally watered-down, would never say anime is a Merry Melody per-se) to even make a eyebrow twitch.
Now, for the subject at hand: For anyone who wants to skip ahead, start here. Actually, I DID read your post (somehow), and DID follow that link: I do partially agree with you. But, not for the same reasons.
Yes, it does seem that the AniDB is currently centered around files. But, I only think it is because of the format the DB uses. There is no easy way to say 'yeah, I watched that' currently, sience the coding uses the file number itself to identify the episode...or something like that.
But, to me, this still seems to be a very important point. I mean, if i watched it on TV, and I watched it on a file, is there a difference in what I watched? To me, there is not. So it is just as important, to me, and probaly many others (you too, evidently, Skywalka), to include ANY ANIME you watched and not just fansubs.
One of there 'mission statements' we'll call it, is that you don't accidentally download something you've already seen, is it not? You know how much I'd like to simply note that I've seen Orphan up to episode xx on TV (gotta love cable), so I don't accidentally download the wrong episode on my computer? I mean, we don't all have 100's of gigabytes of memory to play with, or DVD drives we can write on to. I of course have neither.
So, if that truely is one of the goals of the site, they should highly consider upping that lil' option in there queue of tasks.
And, IF IT IS NOT, then they need to change there aforementioned statements leading me, and others to think such. It would be much appreciated.
Okay, the rest of you can stop here.
Um, Skywalka, when you reply to this (and I know you will, you can't help it), please don't copy/paste the whole dang long-winded message I made, respond to every sylable, and make something no one will read. If you already said twice, can we leave it there?
...and you said plenty about subs. Fansubs. That's what you said AniDB is mainly for. Did YOU read what you wrote?
heh...now that was interesting timing.
Sorry 'bout that right after you posted. But anyway:
Agreed - adding a bogus file WOULD set lazy people into doing such. But, I don't think you know just how many people already HAVE done dummy files. As it was so easy for me to figure out, and I'm new here, I'm sure it is much, MUCH more than any would be willing to admit.
Might I suggest something? At least for the TV stuff that is overly common, like the DBZ example, put the dummy file in shows that are KNOWN to be common on TV. I would prefer otherwise, but this would at least make it a bit more honest, wouldn't you think?
Sorry 'bout that right after you posted. But anyway:
Agreed - adding a bogus file WOULD set lazy people into doing such. But, I don't think you know just how many people already HAVE done dummy files. As it was so easy for me to figure out, and I'm new here, I'm sure it is much, MUCH more than any would be willing to admit.
Might I suggest something? At least for the TV stuff that is overly common, like the DBZ example, put the dummy file in shows that are KNOWN to be common on TV. I would prefer otherwise, but this would at least make it a bit more honest, wouldn't you think?
@Pack Ratt:
First of all I am a bit offended that you think answering in detail is tiresome since you in the first place tried to validate your point by mentioning several aspects. If I am not answering to every of those aspects then you might still feel right because I did not answer thoroughly.
Second I did not try to point out that you are a newbie of some sort just because I am here longer. I wanted to point out that I was a newbie to this forum and AniDB myself several months ago, and that I was told what the purpose of AniDB is, and I felt the need to pass that info along.
And finally just because you are tired of this conversation is no reason for me not to answer. If you wish to leave an argument because you grew tired of it, you should not say anything and leave. I would get that you did not change your opinion by that too.
@EXP: thought so
@DonGate: nice idea. I think this poses the best option - maybe it would be possible to show Anime in your mylist that you have voted for with 0/xx files, with a comment field like the ones used for files - like "source: DVD/TV/CINEMA and "location:" where you could add "living room" or whatever) And add a switch whether to show these entries or not.
If somebody needs to mark such a long series like DBZ or maybe Inu Yasha or Ranma in parts, then I think he/she should simply get another program and mark it watched there, use a Spreadsheet program like the one in OpenOffice or whatever.
I still think that AniDB is a better version of Sharereactor (for Anime only) and not a general catalogue of what you have seen and what not. If there is actually a show on TV and you think you never saw it, you record it. Once you've seen it, you will use the tape to record over again later. If you don't know whether you saw it, read the TV guide. And this way or the other, re-watching anime does not hurt anyone.
I don't think the faq needs fixing since I think it is understandable. If this question will come up again, we can simply link to this thread
First of all I am a bit offended that you think answering in detail is tiresome since you in the first place tried to validate your point by mentioning several aspects. If I am not answering to every of those aspects then you might still feel right because I did not answer thoroughly.
Second I did not try to point out that you are a newbie of some sort just because I am here longer. I wanted to point out that I was a newbie to this forum and AniDB myself several months ago, and that I was told what the purpose of AniDB is, and I felt the need to pass that info along.
And finally just because you are tired of this conversation is no reason for me not to answer. If you wish to leave an argument because you grew tired of it, you should not say anything and leave. I would get that you did not change your opinion by that too.
@EXP: thought so
@DonGate: nice idea. I think this poses the best option - maybe it would be possible to show Anime in your mylist that you have voted for with 0/xx files, with a comment field like the ones used for files - like "source: DVD/TV/CINEMA and "location:" where you could add "living room" or whatever) And add a switch whether to show these entries or not.
If somebody needs to mark such a long series like DBZ or maybe Inu Yasha or Ranma in parts, then I think he/she should simply get another program and mark it watched there, use a Spreadsheet program like the one in OpenOffice or whatever.
I still think that AniDB is a better version of Sharereactor (for Anime only) and not a general catalogue of what you have seen and what not. If there is actually a show on TV and you think you never saw it, you record it. Once you've seen it, you will use the tape to record over again later. If you don't know whether you saw it, read the TV guide. And this way or the other, re-watching anime does not hurt anyone.
I don't think the faq needs fixing since I think it is understandable. If this question will come up again, we can simply link to this thread
I think this is the ultimate laziness, exp is already concerned by:DonGato wrote:Well, I don't think such big changes are needed. I don't even remember which episodes I've seen from those old series but Iknow I've seen most, so why not having a value for the anime entry instead of adding bogus files?
In your case they don't even have to select the individual dummy files. Also marking a series as read would leave people with a problem who have only watched a portion of a series.... Also if you don't care about marking the series as read, (which is basically the same as saying you watched every episode), why not just mark each episode as read...exp wrote:2) ppl are lazy. if we offer a way to add an ep to mylist without having to select an actual file version many ppl would stop to select the "real" files they have bc it seems to be too much of a hassle.
@egg
I guess because EXP said that everything in the DB is fale based, marking entire seires "watched" would be an option to implement at least something to indicate you already know a series - you know, what he tried to explain is that you can not always remember all the synonyms for a series, start downloading it, and then find out that it is something you have already seen before on TV maybe or on DVD. This can of course happen since TV stations or DVD producers often enough choose to give a series a new title.
Marking a series "watched" will prevent you from making the mistake of putting this on your wishlist (again). In fact this has nothing to do with lazyness, it has something to do with our brain not beeing able to remember everything it ever noticed (and I kinda like that feature, some things are better forgotten ^_^)
Since there would be no files in that anime there would not be a change in statistics anywhere.
This only applies to series you have watched without having any files, it can not be a problem concerning the lazyness not to add stuff to your mylist and therefor not telling people that you have files they might want.
Concerning people beeing lazy overall: I don't quite get the problem to be honest. If they still share the file, and you add it to your download list, you will notice that the file is actually shared.
At the moment I more often have the problem that the file is not shared at all even though I the file I chose to add to my downloads has 40+ users who have it set on "shared".
That kind of lazyness is what concerns me more. To be honest the only way to get rid of this would be to develop some kind of plugin for eMule which interconnects with either AniDB or AOM (or both) to automatically update the shared information. As long as people do not add a rule to AOM to do this (check folder, mark file shared if present for all eMule shared folders, mark everything else not shared) the info will always stay inaccurate.
@EXP: First of all I think you are right. Implementing 0 byte files is bad. That said it kind of disturbs me that you allow files with bad CRC to have users. Those entries should only remain in the database to show people they have a bad file and that they should maybe try to get the ones with the correct CRC. At the moment, it is not in any way prohibited ot have bad CRC files and that is just as bad as adding a 0 byte file in my humble opinion (I am not angry about that though ^_^, rules are rules and you set them)
Concerning point 2) I wonder how you actually prevent people from doing that. People are lazy, that is a fact - but have you ever thought about the problem that those people might have 500+ CD-R or maybe 100+ DVD-R and they actually don't want to get all those files in their CD/DVD drive to CRC/ed2k hash the file to be able to add it to AniDB?
I mean that took me about 6 months now and I am still not finished creqing all the files I have. I have about 200 DVD-R and have finished about 100 of those. It took ages to copy the files back on HDD to check them. It takes about 20 minutes per DVD and about 10 per CD even if you just want to hash the files.
On top of that it is highly unlikely that those people ever read a forum with reshare requests. Those files are on CD and most likely the greater proble is that those people add the files to their mylist without setting the state correctly - other than that those files are "gone forever" from the network and most likely will never show up on it again. It might not be such a big problem that they added it manually.
It is very likely that people have an inventory list and the filenames indicating which group released the files and they then simply add all files anyway, without ed2k/CRC checking whether the file is actually correct.
I guess of 80% of the users you will only be able to check the files that are currently on the harddisk and with that (and most of the users beeing a user less than 6 months) stats most likely aren't that accurate at the moment.
I guess because EXP said that everything in the DB is fale based, marking entire seires "watched" would be an option to implement at least something to indicate you already know a series - you know, what he tried to explain is that you can not always remember all the synonyms for a series, start downloading it, and then find out that it is something you have already seen before on TV maybe or on DVD. This can of course happen since TV stations or DVD producers often enough choose to give a series a new title.
Marking a series "watched" will prevent you from making the mistake of putting this on your wishlist (again). In fact this has nothing to do with lazyness, it has something to do with our brain not beeing able to remember everything it ever noticed (and I kinda like that feature, some things are better forgotten ^_^)
Since there would be no files in that anime there would not be a change in statistics anywhere.
This only applies to series you have watched without having any files, it can not be a problem concerning the lazyness not to add stuff to your mylist and therefor not telling people that you have files they might want.
Concerning people beeing lazy overall: I don't quite get the problem to be honest. If they still share the file, and you add it to your download list, you will notice that the file is actually shared.
At the moment I more often have the problem that the file is not shared at all even though I the file I chose to add to my downloads has 40+ users who have it set on "shared".
That kind of lazyness is what concerns me more. To be honest the only way to get rid of this would be to develop some kind of plugin for eMule which interconnects with either AniDB or AOM (or both) to automatically update the shared information. As long as people do not add a rule to AOM to do this (check folder, mark file shared if present for all eMule shared folders, mark everything else not shared) the info will always stay inaccurate.
@EXP: First of all I think you are right. Implementing 0 byte files is bad. That said it kind of disturbs me that you allow files with bad CRC to have users. Those entries should only remain in the database to show people they have a bad file and that they should maybe try to get the ones with the correct CRC. At the moment, it is not in any way prohibited ot have bad CRC files and that is just as bad as adding a 0 byte file in my humble opinion (I am not angry about that though ^_^, rules are rules and you set them
)Concerning point 2) I wonder how you actually prevent people from doing that. People are lazy, that is a fact - but have you ever thought about the problem that those people might have 500+ CD-R or maybe 100+ DVD-R and they actually don't want to get all those files in their CD/DVD drive to CRC/ed2k hash the file to be able to add it to AniDB?
I mean that took me about 6 months now and I am still not finished creqing all the files I have. I have about 200 DVD-R and have finished about 100 of those. It took ages to copy the files back on HDD to check them. It takes about 20 minutes per DVD and about 10 per CD even if you just want to hash the files.
On top of that it is highly unlikely that those people ever read a forum with reshare requests. Those files are on CD and most likely the greater proble is that those people add the files to their mylist without setting the state correctly - other than that those files are "gone forever" from the network and most likely will never show up on it again. It might not be such a big problem that they added it manually.
It is very likely that people have an inventory list and the filenames indicating which group released the files and they then simply add all files anyway, without ed2k/CRC checking whether the file is actually correct.
I guess of 80% of the users you will only be able to check the files that are currently on the harddisk and with that (and most of the users beeing a user less than 6 months) stats most likely aren't that accurate at the moment.
While I agree that it would be nice to be able to do it on all files, I also understand the point that people are lazy slobs.
It must also be understood, though, that the numbers are already corrupted, probaly sigificantly.
I think that using a dummy file for popular TV-releases is the best way to keep the information valid, if that is what you truely want. To do so for everything, or even for stuff on DVD, would make the option too broad, and continue corruption of the data.
On the other hand, seeing how many of the people who would use a random file are also probaly people who saw it on TV (either because that's the only place they get anime, not knowing how to otherwise, or because they want to say they've seen it for their own data records in conjunction with all of the other stuff they've actually seen as fansubs), including anything that was aired on TV would reduce corruption, at least a bit. Although I think it would be more than just a bit.
I mean, just consider, say, Yu Yu Hakusho, which I beleive has 55 episodes currently on rotation on Cartoon Network (...well, it did for about a year. Just checked, must've just been taken off this week). About 4-6 months during daylight hours, after kids got out of school...and even some adults got out of work. How many of those 55 episodes do you think are accurate files?
I'm sure there are plenty of sites that say what has been aired and what hasn't, although I would include only things that have aired for a sigificant amount of time, maybe shown at least twice per episode included.
As for people who then start begging that the spectum is broadened to xy-anime, 'scuse the venacular, but screw 'em. They want it just for them, and don't know the data it will corrupt to include too much.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I can survive with what I have. I'm only continuing this now because I actually think this would reduce corruption in the data. Geeze, and I went pretty long again. Sorry, thought this would be a short one.
...Like I write short ones.
It must also be understood, though, that the numbers are already corrupted, probaly sigificantly.
I think that using a dummy file for popular TV-releases is the best way to keep the information valid, if that is what you truely want. To do so for everything, or even for stuff on DVD, would make the option too broad, and continue corruption of the data.
On the other hand, seeing how many of the people who would use a random file are also probaly people who saw it on TV (either because that's the only place they get anime, not knowing how to otherwise, or because they want to say they've seen it for their own data records in conjunction with all of the other stuff they've actually seen as fansubs), including anything that was aired on TV would reduce corruption, at least a bit. Although I think it would be more than just a bit.
I mean, just consider, say, Yu Yu Hakusho, which I beleive has 55 episodes currently on rotation on Cartoon Network (...well, it did for about a year. Just checked, must've just been taken off this week). About 4-6 months during daylight hours, after kids got out of school...and even some adults got out of work. How many of those 55 episodes do you think are accurate files?
I'm sure there are plenty of sites that say what has been aired and what hasn't, although I would include only things that have aired for a sigificant amount of time, maybe shown at least twice per episode included.
As for people who then start begging that the spectum is broadened to xy-anime, 'scuse the venacular, but screw 'em. They want it just for them, and don't know the data it will corrupt to include too much.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I can survive with what I have. I'm only continuing this now because I actually think this would reduce corruption in the data. Geeze, and I went pretty long again. Sorry, thought this would be a short one.
...Like I write short ones.
Bad idea, this will make people mark files as crc unchecked to go around it. People using the DB will almost always get the crc correct version anyway and if you feel you don't like bad crc files you can just filter them.@EXP: First of all I think you are right. Implementing 0 byte files is bad. That said it kind of disturbs me that you allow files with bad CRC to have users. Those entries should only remain in the database to show people they have a bad file and that they should maybe try to get the ones with the correct CRC. At the moment, it is not in any way prohibited ot have bad CRC files and that is just as bad as adding a 0 byte file in my humble opinion
You see now why Add Files hasn't been added to AOM yet? AOM will be very restrictive on adding files.It is very likely that people have an inventory list and the filenames indicating which group released the files and they then simply add all files anyway, without ed2k/CRC checking whether the file is actually correct.
@Pak Ratt: Didn't bother reading most of your posts since the color is annoying.
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Iceman[grrrr]
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:22 am
- Location: Québec, Canada
Oh is that green?Pak Ratt wrote:I'm truely hurt by your bad eyesight.
....green hater.
I agree with Exp's way of solving the problem. Adding 0 byte files. Although, we should think of some restrictions... like not allowing these entries for shows not released outside Japan because people will have seen the eps through files... just a thought, although it is not good for people living there.
That's not green, this is.Pak Ratt wrote:....green hater.
I also disagree with exp's logic about not implementing this because of lazy people. I think that the number of users has increased greatly, and now there are enough people doing the right thing that this shouldn't be too big of an issue. But the decision ultimately comes down to him, he's done so much already, I feel I don't have a right to complain.