[DISCUSS] Feature: Anime Comments

Forum for discussing AniDB rules & standards. No small talk!

Moderator: AniDB

User avatar
Cyrano423
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

[DISCUSS] Feature: Anime Comments

Post by Cyrano423 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:01 pm

The other day I submitted my first review for an anime. However, my intention for doing so was more so because I wanted to start adding my notes ... indicating what I thought about it. For my friends or people who check my mylist, so they could not only be able to see what I rated / voted an anime to be ... but actually what I thought about it.

So I began to wonder if others wanted to add their thoughts on an anime, not specifically for general consumption. Though never do, because they don't have as much to say as the "standardized" reviewer & format. I think that the general reviews under an anime should remain for the hardcore reviewers ... however, there should also be an option for mere reviewing mortals.

Maybe said "anime comments" will only show on their mylist. Maybe there can be an option to enable the display of anime comments on the anime page. Directly under the "Reviews" link, would be a "Comments" link (as it should have a lesser priority than actual reviews). The comments page would display like the group comments do (as a popup), with text limited to small entries. On the MyVotes page ... there can be a commented column. On the MyReviews page comments and reviews would be displayed together, arranged by the default Anime title column.

---

Maybe it would just be easier to mark a review as "private", "personal", or "general". General reviews can be voted on and viewed by anyone and get priority ... personal ones don't get voted upon, but can be publicly viewed (a link on the top of the review page which they'd click to display the list of submitted personal reviews, which are formatted in the same manner as the general reviews). The private ones would be only displayed from the person's myplace, myvotes, myreviews.

The links on the MyVotes page ... if review is general, would take them to the general review page. If it is personal would take them to the personal review listing, and if it's private will take them to a solitary review page. In the user's profile they can enable who is able to see the private reviews (guests, buddys, members, etc). The link on the MyReviews page would do the same.

---

I'm leaning more towards the latter implementation as it would be more user friendly. Since there won't be a separate system. Also there won't be an additional location to submit a review or comment ... there would just be an additional dropdown selection indicating "general", "personal", "private" on the review form (with the default selection being "general").

Anyway let me know what you think, and of course build / add to it (or take away some thoughts for that matter). I'll look forward to hearing your feedback. Til then, gone.

- Prasand J.
Last edited by Cyrano423 on Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
DonGato
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!
Contact:

Post by DonGato » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:30 pm

Anime comments (private/shared with current mylist permissions) could be useful.

User avatar
Cyrano423
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Post by Cyrano423 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:57 am

DonGato wrote:Anime comments (private/shared with current mylist permissions) could be useful.
Do you think it would be better as a separate system, or just an added option / level to the current review system?
.

User avatar
DonGato
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!
Contact:

Post by DonGato » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:07 am

Well, the current review system has some limits (number of words to be written so you're able to submit it) and I don't think we should limit such comments. Currently I use the wishlist system to set comments on anime series I dropped.

User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Post by Gambit » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:13 am

I think it wouldn`t hurt to have a button 'comments' next to the anime in your MyList when you want to leave a note. It is then up to who you give access to viewing your MyList and your notes.
I wouldn`t think tweaking the review-system would make things useful. Especially if you cannot do anything with it, it would become a mess of notes if you would put them in the anime-page. I`d rather see it in MyList then.

Then again, I also don`t have any buddies who I`d want to show my MyList. It`s open for everyone.

User avatar
nwa
AniDB Staff
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:51 am

Post by nwa » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:05 pm

Gambit lets everyone in! *wink* *wink*

So do I!

User avatar
albinosqrl
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:54 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:

Post by albinosqrl » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:08 pm

nwa wrote:Gambit lets everyone in! *wink* *wink*

So do I!
Kinky... :twisted:

But yeah, I like this idea. Doesn't matter to me if it's got access levels for public/private viewing or not as I probably won't make much use of it, but it's something that I'm sure would come in handy from time to time.

User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Post by Gambit » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:45 pm

@Squirrel What kind of idea do you have with this? Also that button next to the MyList-title, or some other implementation?

As for the comments, I probably wouldn`t use it either ... I make notes in notepad and use it later in my reviews if necessary.
It might result in a lot less crappy reviews though, so that`s only good ;)

User avatar
Cyrano423
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Post by Cyrano423 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:40 pm

Gambit wrote:it would become a mess of notes if you would put them in the anime-page. I`d rather see it in MyList then.
That's why I was suggesting the separation. The unified system although would be an slight initial headache to modify at first, it would be easier for the users to be able to make a review from the same location ... and just switching the mode. On the server-side how it gets entered into the database would be determined by the mode flag set. Thus eliminating the character count ... if in general mode count a certain amount of characters, and if not then don't. For example:

Code: Select all

($mode==1)?((count($data)>=$requiredlength)?db_enter($data): db_reject($data)):(($mode==2)?db_personal($data):db_personal($data,1))
A single line of code can handle the various conditions. Only a new function would need to be added for the 'non' general reviews. The second parameter passed to that new function would indicate if it's private or not, as demonstrated in the above teritary operation. I just realized not everyone uses tertiary operators, but hopefully that makes sense.

All existing reviews would get marked as "general", preserving it's locations and votes.

As far as the display goes ... the reviews will still look like they currently do. There wouldn't be a mixed of "general" and "personal" ... instead on the top of the review page there would be a link to display the personal reviews. The same way there are links on top of pages which might "show votes" versus "show temp votes". By default only the general reviews would show ... and if someone's curious to read potentially shorter reviews, or the quick notes. Some people might prefer to read 10 short reviews in the same space as one single long review, thus getting the perspectives of 10 people in the same time that they'd read a single person's point of view.

For example:

"The visuals on this are outstanding, it's definitely archive worthy." - Person 1
"I thought it was crazy, but crazy in a good way. I definitely recommend it." - Person 2
"This for me goes right up there with FullMetal Alchemist. Matter of fact it kinda feels like a blend of FMA and Mushishi. So if you like those, then I think you'll definitely like this." - Person 3

Those above three thoughts would get rejected under normal conditions ... but those personal thoughts might be invaluable to the person who wants feedback, the type of feedback votes alone don't really supply. With votes people know "okay this amount of people thought it was superb" ... but there's the question, "but why did they think that what about it is superb". Yet, do they really want to read 23 long reviews by people, or would 23 quick notes be faster and more satisfying to skim? Personal reviews which are short can't really be rated in the same manner as the sandardized reviews. Since with the standardized reviews certain guidelines must be followed.

The private thoughts should be only accessible from the person's mylist, myvotes, and myreviews. The links contained on the myvotes page ... where "reviewed" status is either yes or no ... regardless of the type of review they submitted it would display "yes" ... that yes link will take them to the appropriate review page.

That way ... it's easier all around, nothing visually changes about the reviews other than the different link, and drop down box. As it stands there's so many different locations people can enter information in ... I wonder if adding another comment system will just make it less user friendly (as it becomes overwhelming). Which in that case a unified review system would be optimal. People wouldn't have to get used to going to their mylist and clicking on a button. Their personal, private, and general reviews would all be handled from a single location.

Though I do like the button on the mylist idea. However, I think that button to add the review (comment) should take them to the review page and they'd add it as they would a regular review, just merely indicating which type they want to submit.

Hopefully that makes more sense.
Gambit wrote: It might result in a lot less crappy reviews though, so that`s only good ;)
Definitely ... people would just jot their dribble in short format, instead of trying to make their single sentence into a couple of paragraphs, so that they can submit it. Which brings into mind ... any review which is short, can be automatically entered as personal.

.
Last edited by Cyrano423 on Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
albinosqrl
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:54 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:

Post by albinosqrl » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:26 pm

@Gambit - no ideas other than the currently posted ones. I think Cyrano has a pretty good draft idea there.

User avatar
exp
Site Admin
Posts: 2438
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:42 pm
Location: Nowhere

Post by exp » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:45 am

well,

never mind where we end up placing it, i think short comments on animes might indeed be usefull for some people.
and btw. the tag feature goes somewhat in a similar direction, because once you go through someones mylist and look at his anime comments, it might also be interesting to list the tags that user assigned to the anime (of course adding tags would need to become some easy to use function of the mylist page for that).
i guess all these ideas need to be taken into account for the mylist ajax conversion.

BYe!
EXP

User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Post by Gambit » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:24 am

Cyrano423 wrote:"The visuals on this are outstanding, it's definitely archive worthy." - Person 1
"I thought it was crazy, but crazy in a good way. I definitely recommend it." - Person 2
"This for me goes right up there with FullMetal Alchemist. Matter of fact it kinda feels like a blend of FMA and Mushishi. So if you like those, then I think you'll definitely like this." - Person 3
While I personally don`t see any need for this, since such short messages wouldn`t be useful for me at all (I expect lots of ZOMG!!! BeST anIMe evah!!!1111 to have to scroll through), I think the reason we went for reviews in the current state was because we wanted to prevent AnimeNFO-styled reviews. I`m not sure if you`ve ever gone over to AnimeNFO, but those 'reviews' usually consist of oneliners. And honestly, all reviewers who used to review anime on a serious level all came to AniDB because of the way we review here and restricted things to allow only serious reviews. I think those 'reviews' at Animenfo are what you want to integrate here as well.
(Edit: it seems Animenfo reviews are now better and longer too, but they used to be short oneliners mostly)

What your suggestion shows though, sounds a lot like how the group-comments work. I think we could be able to push it onto the first page as well then, just below 'reviews' with a link like 'comments'. Take a look at those group-comments and tell me whether that is how you imagined it, okay?
Cyrano423 wrote:With votes people know "okay this amount of people thought it was superb" ... but there's the question, "but why did they think that what about it is superb". Yet, do they really want to read 23 long reviews by people, or would 23 quick notes be faster and more satisfying to skim?
23 quick notes will probably not be anymore useful than the votes, I think. I think short comments will mostly consist of things like:
- Good series.
- Loved the show
- best series evah!!11
- Average
- stupid
- cool!
Of course, this is just my personal imagination of how it would look like. Then again, I also have been proven wrong when it came to group-comments, so I don`t mind to give it a try. But I don`t think it should be part of the reviews, but rather seperated. imho, that is.
Cyrano423 wrote:Personal reviews which are short can't really be rated in the same manner as the sandardized reviews. Since with the standardized reviews certain guidelines must be followed.
Woah, woah, woah. Those are guidelines, my friend. They do not need to be followed, but it is always appreciated if there are several aspects named. If you take a look at vivafruits and requiem, for instance - both respected reviewers here - neither of them exactly follow the guidelines in such ways. They make their own layout and write how they believe it writes/reads best. That they still explain a lot about why the characters are good/bad, what the good points are of the animation and such is all because they believe it should be in a review.
If you give characters a 10-rating and then only say 'because they were cool', it is nice to see you liked the characters, but for a review, you should explain yourself why you gave those ratings. So, no, you don`t need to follow guidelines, but you should be able to explain why you think something is good/bad. Explaining based on your ratings is one way, rating based on your descriptions is another way. But they should at least match, if you want to write a review.
Cyrano423 wrote:Though I do like the button on the mylist idea. However, I think that button to add the review (comment) should take them to the review page and they'd add it as they would a regular review, just merely indicating which type they want to submit.
I think that button in the MyList should only show if you have made a comment already, actually. Perhaps showing a 'comment' link next to the votes would be a more appropriate place though.
Cyrano423 wrote:
Gambit wrote: It might result in a lot less crappy reviews though, so that`s only good ;)
Definitely ... people would just jot their dribble in short format, instead of trying to make their single sentence into a couple of paragraphs, so that they can submit it. Which brings into mind ... any review which is short, can be automatically entered as personal.
That, I wouldn`t mind. But I don`t think that, when it crosses the char-limit, it should immediately become a regular review.
Perhaps you should get the option (checkbox or radiobuttons perhaps?) to display it as a review (gradeable), or display it as a comment (non-gradeable). That is useful if you have them in 1 page, but if you have them seperated as links on the main page for both 'reviews' and 'comments', then this isn`t really necessary.

ps: I added a space in your code because the page was stretched here due to my 1024x768 resolution.

User avatar
DonGato
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!
Contact:

Post by DonGato » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:06 pm

No, no, no... not small sized reviews. Comments in my opinion is useful when you can have some information you might find interesting to remember and even share with some people (i.e. why you dropped it, why you gave it a good rating, that it can be recommended to people liking x style). Something like notes. I don't like reviews, less mini-reviews (Gambit proposition of comments and Cyrano423 examples) like the ones at AnimeNFO.

User avatar
exp
Site Admin
Posts: 2438
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:42 pm
Location: Nowhere

Post by exp » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:19 pm

well,

I am not sure about the merging idea @ reviews & comments.
For me, one of the main points against this would be that it kinda declares comments as being something like short reviews. From the discussion so far, I think it is pretty clear that the requirements for a review are on an entirely different level. In fact, in most cases reviews and comments are probably written by different user groups. Most people who write comments will never write a review. And those view users who actually do write reviews can savely be considered as being mostly advanced users.

One of the benefits of such a comment system could be that it might keep the review section cleaner. As such, the farther it is away from the review pages the better. If some tard normally doesn't open the review page but is happily spamming away in the comments page, then hey, maybe he never gets to write crappy reviews bc he simply ignores that page :P
On the other hand, when he is in the same interface already... "hey, i just need a couple more lines and i can make this a review and then i will be able to b00st th3 sc0re if this uber l33t series..."

So i would maybe give a link to the comment section with the error message you get when you try to submit a review which is below the minimum character count. And maybe a link to the review section if you try to submit an insanely large comment. But IMHO merging both might really kill one of the main benefits we might get out of this.

BYe!
EXP

PS: just returned from a veeerrry long work day, so if I am not making any sense, just ignore me, i am kinda brain dead overhere x_X

User avatar
Cyrano423
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: New York, NY
Contact:

Post by Cyrano423 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:37 pm

exp wrote: i guess all these ideas need to be taken into account for the mylist ajax conversion.
ooooh @ Ajax conversion. I wonder how that's gonna come out, looking forward to that. If you need any help with the development of that my specialty is advanced CSS+XHTML1.1 & AJAX (I'm a full-time senior web developer ... damn that statement made me feel old, lol).
Gambit wrote: I expect lots of ZOMG!!! BeST anIMe evah!!!1111 to have to scroll through
lmfao ... yeah I was thinking something like that as well, which is why keeping it out of sight by default would potentially lessen some people's annoyance. Since they'd only see it if they're specifically looking for it.
Gambit wrote: What your suggestion shows though, sounds a lot like how the group-comments work. I think we could be able to push it onto the first page as well then, just below 'reviews' with a link like 'comments'.
The group comments is actually why I thought of the original anime "comments" and stated that initially. I also initially stated the comments link would go below the review link. That was my first implementation idea if it was going to be "anime comments" then it should display like comments.

Though I leaned to the second idea because of how it's more user friendly. It would also solve the problem of people complaining about the votes they get on their reviews. If they don't want their review to be voted on, then they can make it "personal" but doing so means it won't get the priority of reviews people voted on.
Gambit wrote: Woah, woah, woah. Those are guidelines, my friend. They do not need to be followed, but it is always appreciated if there are several aspects named.
Guidelines eventually become a standard. Since when voting or rating people start thinking, "was this covered? was that?" Which in turn indirectly creates a requirement. Requirements that they are basing upon the guidelines. Then as people attempt to follow the guidelines it pushes it further into a site standard or unofficial rule. The more people complain about low votes or ratings, the more others might try to write in a manner to get better ratings. While this is inherently good ... because it increases quality. However, the guidelines become the standard eventually alienating those who do differently.

By giving users the option to not have their reviews voted upon, lessens the obligation many will have to get a higher vote. While you or I might not care about a low rating, most people actually do care about ratings which is why ratings systems are implemented to begin with. Then others are vain because of insecurity. Which is why the latter implementation of various review types appeals the user experience on many levels besides usability. Without disrupting the quality of true reviews, since it provides a layer of quality separation.
Gambit wrote: That, I wouldn`t mind. But I don`t think that, when it crosses the char-limit, it should immediately become a regular review. Perhaps you should get the option (checkbox or radiobuttons perhaps?) to display it as a review (gradeable), or display it as a comment (non-gradeable). That is useful if you have them in 1 page, but if you have them seperated as links on the main page for both 'reviews' and 'comments', then this isn`t really necessary.
I don't think it should become a regular review. Rather just when entering the review, and submitting it ... if the review is excessively short, it's entered as personal. Though @ gradeable / non ... that's essentially what I was saying but not as radio buttons but rather a drop-down selection.

gradeable == general review
non-gradable == personal review

though there should also be a private option, where people might only want their friends to see it. Putting everything in different locations just complicates it. Since you're essentially giving more sections to the site. More isn't necessarily better. The more intelligent people like dealing with more items, but in doing so they alienate the simple people. For example ... my initial thought conveyed the idea that you are conveying. Since I naturally think in a complicated manner. Then I realized that it might be too complex for some ... as such my secondary thought focused on the user experience.

I then put more emphasis on those who think in a simplistic manner. As such it seemed as if I only had stated one idea. Which in turn because it seemed like I only had one idea, you then stated my original idea. It's easy for us to initially think in terms of separation ... because our brains catalogue information that way. Though the reality is ... most people don't think that way. Which is why most of them could never be admins. So as you implement something which appeals more to you ... you alienate about 80% of the population since you and I are in the 20%.

My first example proposed:

Anime Reviews
Anime Comments
Anime Comments [Private]
Group Comments
File Comments

The second one proposed:

Anime Reviews
-- rated
-- un-rated
-- private
Group Comments
File Comments

Which visually becomes less overwhelming since there's only three things to see versus the other obvious five. It's also more natural for people to ... as they go to make a comment "ooh I can mark this as personal?" So the transition from reviews would be smoother. Additionally the latter is easier for quality control. If an admin thinks a review is too personal, they can demote it to an un-rated review. That demotion won't cause much of a stir, because the ways people access the reviews would remain the same.

The reason why there's a bit of confusion between the Comments vs. Reviews is when speaking of the short ones which would be better as comments. Though I was only speaking of items which are that length, because the personal reviews should almost have no character minimum (actually let's say the minimum is 20 characters). So with the personal reviews some people might just jot something short. Which is important that such items do not kill the quality of regular reviews, and the new layer would ensure that it will not disrupt the appearance nor quality of the review page.

In the first scenario:

Admin's job ... check anime review complaints, check anime comment complaints, check group comment complaints, check creq

in the combined situaiton, the check anime review complaints is a simple demotion. There's no anime comments to check, nor does one have to really check the personal reviews ... since they are personal. There's no added items to monitor either. It's more simple from both a user and maintenence perspective.

In essense ... the first idea gives another level of interaction on the site. The second idea instead give an additional option. Some people will use said option, others won't. Though give people another level of interaction and it becomes a slot others might think they need to fill. Go to the anime page and see there are no comments, but there are reviews ... someone might feel obligated to make a comment.

Also with the comment system ... how does one implement private comments? Is that even an option? In the first situation it essentially becomes complex. Let's say ... public comments, private comments, general reviews, personal reviews. Versus ... general reviews, personal reviews, private reviews.

Locked