Bad reviews - What to do about it? Suggestions here.

Post by **nwa** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:25 pm

my bad sorry

I just can't count the lenght of the text by characters because I can't imagine the estimated lenght by just letters..counting as words gives me a better overwiev of how long the text would be

100 words would be the best limit...or what?

bman, I take it as a not so very funny joke

zaufany · Post by **zaufany** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:48 pm

100 words ~= 575 characters
I agree on everything between 250 and 575 characters.

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:18 am

nwa wrote:what I ask is...shall the mods (mainly Gambit) start "loosing" the spams or not, as it seems to me all agree on that, altough I cant quite figure out what DonGato is thinking

I´ve already stated that 'This anime rulez+all 10s' should be safely deleted. What I don't like is the elimination of the all 10 reviews. A minimun lenght for the review could be easily added by exp.

exp wrote:I think the simplest version would be to allow "was this review helpful: yes/no" voting and to sort the reviews by the results of those votes, meaning the reviews with the most yes votes on top.
any edit would reset the votes to 0.

/me agree with exp.
/me loves exp for saying the same as him.

100 is quite a low value. 500 should be a better one (or maybe higher?).

I don't want to protect freedom of speech in spite of practicity. Having MODs, different levels of reviews and such thing will lead the review system kind of complicate and scary.

zaufany wrote:
nwa wrote:who counts the lenght of the reviews by characters anyway?
The computers. It is much easier to implement.

This is a deafs talking.

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:01 am

Even though I think 100 words is a more appropriate way of setting a limit, I wouldn`t mind setting a 300 character min. limit instead. 100 characters are 2 lines, 300 characters would be 6 lines. If you`re able to write 6 lines about an anime, then you`re not a lame n00b who can`t write at all. 6 full lines should keep at least the n00bs out who want to add a review with 'DBZ R0XX!!!!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!!' - which is our main target, imho.
After that, a mod should still check if those reviews are worth being posted, or it should be rated with the review-ranking.

A minimum limit of 500-700 characters would scare a lot of people off, I think. If you want to scare people off, implement this. That way lots of 'annoying' reviews won`t be tolerated in the first place, but it will also scare away some decent reviewers who think they won`t make it to that limit. This way it will only tolerate reviewers who actually know how to create at least a decent review with an appropriate amount of text.

@nwa I didn`t include myself since I consider myself as natural to be a prof. reviewer already

But actually no; I thought of people who wrote good or useful reviews from my point of view. Including myself would only be my subjectivity, not others. I don`t know how good my reviews are in the eyes of other people, I just think they`re good enough to be there. When a rating system kicks in, I`ll probably see if my reviews are appreciated or not at all.

I still like the idea of having a select group handling all reviews in order to keep the review-section clean and with useful reviews, but I suppose that`s never gonna happen. Therefor I`m looking forward to a working ratingsystem, which is keeping the bad reviews at the bottom and the good ones at the top - in theory that is.

Does anyone share my idea about having 3 reviews as 'main' reviews, while the rest is hidden behind a 'more reviews'-button? Those 'main' reviews will be the three highest ranked ones. Since those will probably make most sense, and will probably give a fair view about the series. I don`t think regular people usually read more than 3 reviews in order to decide to download or not (personally I`d read them all though). If they think they still can`t decide after those three main reviews, it means that those three are not that good after all, and that a 'hidden' review (behind the button) is probably more fit to be a 'main' review.

kidan wrote:That way there is no censor-ship and we could add some nice new stats like most approved / appreciated reviewer.

I like this idea. It makes people competitive about writing proper reviews, not a lot of reviews. Including this 'ranking' in the review itself (just below the name/ratings) will make people look at how that reviewer got rated himself and therefor will check out other reviews made by that person if they have a good score.

Post by **nwa** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:18 pm

Gambit wrote:Does anyone share my idea about having 3 reviews as 'main' reviews, while the rest is hidden behind a 'more reviews'-button? Those 'main' reviews will be the three highest ranked ones.

well..if we look at how many 'active' reviewers we have right now then having 3 reviews for 1 anime is quite a lot

we only have 2 really active reviewers and these are Gambit and themug who have over 80 reviews..next one to come is aranaxon with 30+ reviews, but some of his reviews wouldnt fit into the character/word limit...the next should be me

with 20 reviews..then petriw, requiem and some others..but most ppl have written less than 10 reviews...so I dont mind having this 'main' reviews system but most of the times it wouldnt matter...only for animes like Berserk and such more known series you can see more than 3 reviews...in time when we have more 'active' reviewers this systm would benefit

but still one question remains..what to do with the reviews for still ongoing animes??

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:03 pm

Gambit wrote:I still like the idea of having a select group handling all reviews in order to keep the review-section clean and with useful reviews, but I suppose that`s never gonna happen.

I'm not totally against it, but I don't think that it's nesseccary atm and should be handled seperately, after a user-rating for reviews has been running for a while...

Gambit wrote:Does anyone share my idea about having 3 reviews as 'main' reviews, while the rest is hidden behind a 'more reviews'-button?

Partially ^^;
If it's hiding other reviews behind a dedicated review-page, there should mainly be a limit of minimum votes for all reviews for this to happen, for example (amount of votes for the reviews)/(amount of reviews)<5 or 10. That way, when someone writes a new review, he has a chance to make it appear (along with the other reviews) even when there's already 3 good ones - in other words, the users would be encouraged to reevaluate the review-ranking for this anime.

If you meant showing reviews on the anime-overview-page itself, I'm unsure about that. In the current layout, I'd believe showing the first x00 characters of one review a maximum.

Still:
Establish the voting-facility first, then one can think of other ways (than just sorting them) to use the votes...

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:15 pm

nwa wrote:we only have 2 really active reviewers and these are Gambit and themug who have over 80 reviews..next one to come is aranaxon with 30+ reviews, but some of his reviews wouldnt fit into the character/word limit...the next should be me with 20 reviews..then petriw, requiem and some others..but most ppl have written less than 10 reviews...

Remember that most reviewers like you, requiem and petriW haven`t started reviewing until a little while ago. Eventually you guys will have a decent amount of reviews as well and then there will be enough people reviewing in order to have most anime at least 3 good reviews.
It just takes time. I mean, there have been a time when animenfo didn`t have reviews either, and they had to wait until people started posting too.

wahaha wrote:That way, when someone writes a new review, he has a chance to make it appear (along with the other reviews) even when there's already 3 good ones - in other words, the users would be encouraged to reevaluate the review-ranking for this anime.

Perhaps the latest added review should be shown there as well? And no, of course it shouldn`t display on the anime page itself.
Animetitle with button 'reviews' -> 3 'main' reviews & latest addition & button to other reviews -> display other reviews.

zaufany · Post by **zaufany** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:29 pm

The new little conception.
We can add status "to improve" to every bad review. This kind of reviews won't show on the main reviews page. However, the author will be able to improve his work. He should have a special link. This is much pleasant that deleting them. This is also much safe, the decent review won’t be deleted by a mistake. The every new review will be without this status.

A reflection
The future brings mostly more spamers. I wish I were wrong. We have time to prepare a good solution, but we aren't able to test it. There are not enough smpamers.

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:45 pm

We can do some spamming... but NEVER ask me to post 'DBZ R0XX!!!!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!!'

zaufany · Post by **zaufany** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:18 pm

We can't do a spamming. We can only put some stupid text into reviews. But it won't be a real spam. We need the torrent of spammers.
However, most of solution can be included in any time. If one fails, we will include another or increase number of mods. Only the voting system must be developed before the spammers' wave.

DonGato wrote:We can do some spamming... but NEVER ask me to post 'DBZ R0XX!!!!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!!'

You can always write "FUCK THIS SHIT" or something like this. This is a spam too.

Post by **nwa** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:33 pm

alright..I think we all have reached the point where everyone has agreed on a new feature that should be added, the voting system for reviews...
we have also all agreed to remove the spam(Best anime ever all 10's) and the minimum lenght of reviews which should be around 250-575 characters (im still in favour of around 100 words that is approximately 500+ characters, but if it's 95 words then it wouldn't kill either) now all we need is to wait for EXP to look into the matter and implement (or deny

) the new features/allowances regarding the reviews...

btw I could do the 'DBZ R0XX!!!!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!!' spam

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:32 am

nwa wrote:we have also all agreed to remove the spam(Best anime ever all 10's)

I don't agree on that one

- even if it's obviously something that shouldn't even be called "review", leave just it to the users to give it a low rating...
Real spam ("Get the dvd here: amazon.com/...?ref=leetmaster") should of course be deleted, but AFAIK there is none.

Post by **nwa** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:57 am

wahaha wrote:I don't agree on that one

Gambit is allowed to delete all reviews which have less than 4 lines

and he has already removed some...
excellent

kidan · Post by **kidan** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:04 pm

wahaha wrote:Well, I don't see why one or multiple mods should decide who'll be an "approved reviewer" or not - if a user-rating for reviews is installed, you can simply calculate such, which is much less subjective.

If mods could bump reviews to the top or give them a special label, you'd in fact make them "professional review-voters" whose vote counts more those of the other users, which I don't really like .

Well in my idea of the system not a person (the reviewer) would be approved, but each single review. Basically each review, which can be called a review (as it complies with the review-guide) would be approved. So it is NO 'vote' from the reviewmods, but just some kind of sorting between reviews and crap based on personal opinion, but not on the reviewers opinion about the anime. (I for example have not seen that many anime (~40) so far, but I can tell, if a review complies with the guide).

So after all, most reviews will be in the approved group (with some voting-scores by the users) and the crap will be in another group (seperated score). That way nobody will be pissed, that his 'review' was deleted, but some will be encouraged to write high quality. Especially, if we could add some stats about best reviewer / most approved reviews.

Post by **nwa** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:37 am

kidan wrote:Well in my idea of the system not a person (the reviewer) would be approved, but each single review. Basically each review, which can be called a review (as it complies with the review-guide ) would be approved...../...but I can tell, if a review complies with the guide

well, then we already have a problem...Gambit's guide, AFAIK is not ment to be as a standard but to lead the new reviewers into the right direction of not just writing stuff like "Best anime ever all 10's + a little comment about certain something". My point is that I for example don't write reviews based on that guide..well, maybe only partly since I do talk about animation, sound and about the story separately but it is still different from the guide...so if you approve the reviews based on Gambit's guide(damn you review monopolizer

) then I wouldn't be approved??

oh and themug wouldn't be approved either