Bad reviews - What to do about it? Suggestions here.
Moderator: AniDB
So you mean you dont think that the "Best anime ever all 10's" reviews should be deleted?? 
I think that if you do a review, then do it properly...and if anidb.net wants to keep its reviews decent and considerable then these "Best anime ever all 10's" should most certainly be removed...
you wont see a point of view in these kinds of reviews..all you see is spam
I think that if you do a review, then do it properly...and if anidb.net wants to keep its reviews decent and considerable then these "Best anime ever all 10's" should most certainly be removed...
you wont see a point of view in these kinds of reviews..all you see is spam
I have nice idea. We can create two groups for reviews.
The first group will be open only for the approved reviewers. Only reviews from this group will affect Average Review Rating.
The second group will be open for everyone (excluding approved reviewers). Everyone will be able to put any review including "Best anime ever all 10’s". If someone writes a few good reviews, he will be approved and his reviews will be moved to first group.
However, I prefer appoint the moderator.
ZF
The first group will be open only for the approved reviewers. Only reviews from this group will affect Average Review Rating.
The second group will be open for everyone (excluding approved reviewers). Everyone will be able to put any review including "Best anime ever all 10’s". If someone writes a few good reviews, he will be approved and his reviews will be moved to first group.
However, I prefer appoint the moderator.
ZF
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DonGato
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There is a review I made with all 10's and it's Macross Plus (IIRC). In my point of view it has no flaw in animation, sound, story or characters. And it has a great value for Macross lovers. So I won't change that... there are lots of people who liked Trigun so much they overrated (IMO) in AnimeNFO that series, but I won't tell them they stop reviewing because I don't agree. They have the right to their opinion.
What you're talking is about censorship and I'm talking about democracy. Everyone should be left to review the way they like. Of course an all 10's or 1's with a single OK or NOT OK should be avoided but you can restrict that by asking a certain numbers of characters to be entered.
And if the problem is the calculated value shown now at the anime page then we must remove that value and allow the users only to view it on the review page.
EDIT: and I've read some 'extensive' reviews I didn't like so the problem is not the size or the values but the difference in opinion. This won't be solved by censoring the people you think they don't deserve to do reviews.
EDIT2: and Gambit, damn you for bringing this topic to the light!
What you're talking is about censorship and I'm talking about democracy. Everyone should be left to review the way they like. Of course an all 10's or 1's with a single OK or NOT OK should be avoided but you can restrict that by asking a certain numbers of characters to be entered.
And if the problem is the calculated value shown now at the anime page then we must remove that value and allow the users only to view it on the review page.
EDIT: and I've read some 'extensive' reviews I didn't like so the problem is not the size or the values but the difference in opinion. This won't be solved by censoring the people you think they don't deserve to do reviews.
EDIT2: and Gambit, damn you for bringing this topic to the light!
:mymaster: ^^DonGato wrote:What you're talking is about censorship and I'm talking about democracy. Everyone should be left to review the way they like.
I think, though, that there at least part of a review is not just written for oneself (and "free to write"), but rather for others to read, to make them get it or make them skip it.
I'm not in favor of (simply) deleting a review, but the more reviews there are, the higher is the need of a method to favor good reviews in some way.
Moderators:
I'd prefer multiple mods to approve the reviews (sounds like overkill, huh?) to make sure that the reviewers aren't forced into the mod's way of reviewing, which is (or rather "could be") the main drawback of this solution.
Rating (both reviews and reviewers):
No "1-10"-rating, please. "Did this review help you?" - yes / dunno / no would be enough IMO. A high number of recommendations could then mean:
* Bump the review more to the top
+: Ppl. will quickly be able to get a "good" review
+: A wheighted review-average could take the rating into account, for example in a range from 0.5x - 1.5x
-: The "Page 2"-effect. Good reviews on top will be rated higher than good reviews on the bottom.
-: How to honor editing a review when it was previously rated "not helpful"?
Approved reviewers:
This sounds interesting, but the main question is, of course, who should approve them? I think, in the end, this depends on which of the mentioned methods will be favored. If there will be mods, they could decide. If there will be review-ratings, these could be used to move reviewers to a the "approved" group.
Minimum lenght:
Some moderate value like "100 chars" would indeed be nice - just because anything below this value is hardly more than a detailed vote.
Conclusion:
(if you read this, exp: Sorry ^^;)
Uh, well, use it all
Minimum length -> mods -> review-rating -> "approved"-group...
After reading the thread I am more and more thinking that a system like the one on amazon would be the best, ie:
"Was this review useful to you?" yes/no
What is then done with the review is kind of another matter but a review shouldn't be deleted, at least not without a message sent to the reviewer with an explanation. I think rather that if a review or a reviewer has a large amount of "no" then it should be filtered or displayed last with a little warning.
"Was this review useful to you?" yes/no
What is then done with the review is kind of another matter but a review shouldn't be deleted, at least not without a message sent to the reviewer with an explanation. I think rather that if a review or a reviewer has a large amount of "no" then it should be filtered or displayed last with a little warning.
Lots of replies, so I`m gonna post here again.
First of all, I don`t think an anime will be able to receive all 10s, if you consider it has to be perfect in 4 different categories, and you`ll have to think of it as something perfectly enjoying as well. Even the stuff I rated nearly perfect, I have to say that they also lack something. Doesn`t mean I don`t think it`s the best anime ever, but that doesn`t mean the ratings should be all 10s either.
Just my personal opinion
wahaha has a point too here. It doesn`t matter if there are good reviews, as long as there are posted a lot of bad reviews afterwards. Nobody will see the good reviews anymore if they are on page 2 or even further down.
I`ve seen the animenfo reviews, and 80% of them are crap. You`ll have to wade through 5 pages to get an idea what people actually think of it, since 80% of the reviews there are oneliners, or people with real narrow thoughts who think that anime is the best anime ever (ever heard the yell 'DBZ R0X !!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!' ?) without accepting anything else. I`d feel horrible if that would happen to anidb as well, that`s why I`d like to see some sort of organisation with the reviews here.
If you want to use a moderator to make sure the reviews are good, I think a good moderator is someone who can write a proper review. Those people should usually be able to judge how good or bad a review is. Of course those people should be objective, not subjective. Perhaps a review should be approved by more than 1 moderator before getting accepted, or perhaps we need a subforum where mods can discuss certain reviews. And there is definitely no lack of good reviewers around here. Even though not everyone does it the same way, it doesn`t mean they aren`t able to write proper reviews.
I also kinda like Zaufany`s idea of having 2 review-sections. That way you`ll have a professional review-section and a review section a la animenfo. Don`t know if it would be appreciated though, but for the people who actually rely on reviews in order to download/buy anything, I think they should be provided with a few proper reviews.
PetriW has a nice option too, but that always may be useful or useless. People who don`t like the opinion will probably trash it too. But it`s a good idea, imo.
DonGato Hey, if I care about something, I want it to be good, perhaps even perfect
And btw, I didn`t really bash Escaflowne movie, just that I think it`s confusing and too packed I did give a good rating for the animation, better than I`ll give the tv-series even.
First of all, I don`t think an anime will be able to receive all 10s, if you consider it has to be perfect in 4 different categories, and you`ll have to think of it as something perfectly enjoying as well. Even the stuff I rated nearly perfect, I have to say that they also lack something. Doesn`t mean I don`t think it`s the best anime ever, but that doesn`t mean the ratings should be all 10s either.
Just my personal opinion
wahaha has a point too here. It doesn`t matter if there are good reviews, as long as there are posted a lot of bad reviews afterwards. Nobody will see the good reviews anymore if they are on page 2 or even further down.
I`ve seen the animenfo reviews, and 80% of them are crap. You`ll have to wade through 5 pages to get an idea what people actually think of it, since 80% of the reviews there are oneliners, or people with real narrow thoughts who think that anime is the best anime ever (ever heard the yell 'DBZ R0X !!!!! BEST ANIME EVAH!!!' ?) without accepting anything else. I`d feel horrible if that would happen to anidb as well, that`s why I`d like to see some sort of organisation with the reviews here.
If you want to use a moderator to make sure the reviews are good, I think a good moderator is someone who can write a proper review. Those people should usually be able to judge how good or bad a review is. Of course those people should be objective, not subjective. Perhaps a review should be approved by more than 1 moderator before getting accepted, or perhaps we need a subforum where mods can discuss certain reviews. And there is definitely no lack of good reviewers around here. Even though not everyone does it the same way, it doesn`t mean they aren`t able to write proper reviews.
I also kinda like Zaufany`s idea of having 2 review-sections. That way you`ll have a professional review-section and a review section a la animenfo. Don`t know if it would be appreciated though, but for the people who actually rely on reviews in order to download/buy anything, I think they should be provided with a few proper reviews.
PetriW has a nice option too, but that always may be useful or useless. People who don`t like the opinion will probably trash it too. But it`s a good idea, imo.
DonGato Hey, if I care about something, I want it to be good, perhaps even perfect
And btw, I didn`t really bash Escaflowne movie, just that I think it`s confusing and too packed
I did give a good rating for the animation, better than I`ll give the tv-series even.
Last edited by Gambit on Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Who will approve the reviews? There is a problem. If we choose everyone, to many reviews will be approved. We can choose few electors (ourselves), but it doesn't sound democratic. We can say: "The forum community will decide." This mean us too, but it sound very democratic.
BTW
I think we can now include the minimum length limit and deleting "Best anime ever all 10's".
bye
ZF
BTW
I think we can now include the minimum length limit and deleting "Best anime ever all 10's".
bye
ZF
Last edited by zaufany on Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Perhaps there will be a few people who volunteer for this job, and then the community may vote whether these people will be handed that job, or rather not.zaufany wrote:Who will approve the reviews? There is a problem. If we choose everyone, to many reviews will be approved. We can choose few electors (ourselves), but it doesn’t sound democratic. We can say: “The forum community will decide.” This mean us too, but it sound very democratic.
Or perhaps the community itself can name some people to be doing this job.
It still doesn`t solve the problem of the '2nd page', where you don`t see the good reviews on the other pages anymore. A better idea is to choose a representative review with the idea of PetriW, which means the highest rated (or voted, with his useful/not useful rating) will be shown and the rest will be available with a link. Or perhaps rather the 3 highest ranked ones, so there will be a difference in opinions/reviews. Then everyone would actually be able to post (like in animenfo - urgh) without the problem of the good reviews getting ditched to the last page.
Again, that wouldn`t solve the 'edited' problem. Like when someone posts a decent review and edits it a few weeks afterwards so it`ll become a good review. I think it might be good to make that a 'new' review without votes, in order to be re-rated.
PS: Let me add that everyone participating in here actually cares about how reviews look like, or that they are important enough to be discussed. Makes me feel like I`m not the only one appreciating them
Yeah, had to say that -
DonGato
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Well, IMHO it will be better if we do this:
- Remove the average review index from the anime page (we still have the voting there and it's quite more precise IMO)
- Limit the review size to x characters (should be decided which is the size needed here... don't make it big or we will have no reviews)
- Add a Yes/No rating to reviews that will put them in order of usefulness (that way the 'crap' will show last)
The moderators for reviewers for me it's a no-go and also that NO 10's allowed and that Professional/Rookie sections. And I like to see the infinite reviews at AnimeNFO... you understand when one is useless and when not.
Gambit, for me there is no flaw in Macross Plus... but maybe for you not. After all a review is an opinion and will never be objective! NEVER!
EDIT: AFAIK if you want to change a review you should remove it first. So all Yes/No votings will be deleted also.
- Remove the average review index from the anime page (we still have the voting there and it's quite more precise IMO)
- Limit the review size to x characters (should be decided which is the size needed here... don't make it big or we will have no reviews)
- Add a Yes/No rating to reviews that will put them in order of usefulness (that way the 'crap' will show last)
The moderators for reviewers for me it's a no-go and also that NO 10's allowed and that Professional/Rookie sections. And I like to see the infinite reviews at AnimeNFO... you understand when one is useless and when not.
Gambit, for me there is no flaw in Macross Plus... but maybe for you not. After all a review is an opinion and will never be objective! NEVER!
EDIT: AFAIK if you want to change a review you should remove it first. So all Yes/No votings will be deleted also.
yep..that has to be donezaufany wrote:I think we can now include the minimum length limit and deleting "Best anime ever all 10’s"
and I must mention that I am absolutely-totally-100% AGAINST the types of reviews in AnimeNFO.com ...I can't believe anyone would like to see a review like this "DBZ RoXXXorZ haRD!!!!"
oh I care a lot about how the reviews look like in anidb.net, I want to see them clear and reasonable, thats why review moderators are needed imo...
DonGato you are ruining this thread
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DonGato
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I'm trying to save the review system... but the way you propose it's useless for me and I think lots of other people. I already know your 'moderators' likings, so I won't use it anymore after this system is imposed.
Reviews should be done because you care to talk about your experience with an anime, not because of work (the system you propose). And I think you misinterpreted my 'I like AnimeNFO' because it was meant as sarcasm (forgot the tags). Anyway, if you're wise you can get the good ones from the mass. As I stated before there is a huge amount of reviews for Trigun but none helped me avoid missing my time viewing it.
Take professional sports vs. amateur sports and you will get the idea. Professional sports lack interest, it's only money making. Well I think you will get the point. Hope so!
Reviews should be done because you care to talk about your experience with an anime, not because of work (the system you propose). And I think you misinterpreted my 'I like AnimeNFO' because it was meant as sarcasm (forgot the tags). Anyway, if you're wise you can get the good ones from the mass. As I stated before there is a huge amount of reviews for Trigun but none helped me avoid missing my time viewing it.
Take professional sports vs. amateur sports and you will get the idea. Professional sports lack interest, it's only money making. Well I think you will get the point. Hope so!
@DonGato: While I basically agree with you, let me defend the idea of review-mods
Mods shouldn't be able to delete reviews IMO. If a review is bad, the other people can rate it that way. I'd believe them to be useful in places where a script can't easily do the work:
1) As mentioned, mods could be responsible for "unlocking" the reviews or - if they decide not to unlock it - sending the reviewer a comment on what they believe to be bad.
One could also think of restricting the "write review->locked->mod unlocks->visible"-way to (for example) the first 5 reviews to make this more of a help and introduction for review-newbies than establishing the local review-mod-dictatorship...
2) When someone edits his review, like changing one sentence, correcting some typos, changing a vote up or down one notch or completing the plot-review after not having seen all eps before - in case of all those "minor" changes, a mod could decide to approve the editing and thus leaving the review-rating intact, or counting it as a new review and resetting the votes. Maybe this one needs two mods to approve it...
Without mods, this would still work, though:
For 1) we could simply bug exp enough to create a review-help-forum and leave bad reviews to the readers' votes while 2) could work the way you said by strictly deleting the readers' votes when a review has been edited.
Can't be helped, I guess...
Mods shouldn't be able to delete reviews IMO. If a review is bad, the other people can rate it that way. I'd believe them to be useful in places where a script can't easily do the work:
1) As mentioned, mods could be responsible for "unlocking" the reviews or - if they decide not to unlock it - sending the reviewer a comment on what they believe to be bad.
One could also think of restricting the "write review->locked->mod unlocks->visible"-way to (for example) the first 5 reviews to make this more of a help and introduction for review-newbies than establishing the local review-mod-dictatorship...
2) When someone edits his review, like changing one sentence, correcting some typos, changing a vote up or down one notch or completing the plot-review after not having seen all eps before - in case of all those "minor" changes, a mod could decide to approve the editing and thus leaving the review-rating intact, or counting it as a new review and resetting the votes. Maybe this one needs two mods to approve it...
Without mods, this would still work, though:
For 1) we could simply bug exp enough to create a review-help-forum and leave bad reviews to the readers' votes while 2) could work the way you said by strictly deleting the readers' votes when a review has been edited.
zaufany wrote:Who will approve the reviews? There is a problem. If we choose everyone, to many reviews will be approved. We can choose few electors (ourselves), but it doesn't sound democratic. We can say: “The forum community will decide.” This mean us too, but it sound very democratic.
Can't be helped, I guess...you got it all wrong...there are no "moderators" likings..well there are but, the moderators wouldnt go deleting/not allowing something that totally differs from their opinion..the reviews that would be deleted/not allowed are only the "Best anime ever all 10’s" since they are completely useless..there is no informaion why this anime is best ever...DonGato wrote:I'm trying to save the review system... but the way you propose it's useless for me and I think lots of other people. I already know your 'moderators' likings.
All I ever wanted was the dissapearing of the "1-2 sentence all 10's" reviews...nothing else
well..maybe also for the mods to be a little stricter about writing reviews for ongoing series
I dont have anything against the fact that ppl give all 10's as long as it is explained why the reviewer rated that way...