[ALL-REQs] Categories (new genre system)

[BlckKnght]

A few new categories:

Dynamic::Plot::Epic
Dynamic::Plot::Episodic
Dynamic::Plot::Tragedy
Dynamic::Plot::Slice of Life
Characters::Students::Elementary School Students
Characters::Students::Middle School Students
Characters::Students::High School Students
Characters::Students::College Students

I think Genre::SciFi::Mecha should used more generically. I could be moved somewhere else (maybe Setting::Objects::Mecha?) and all kinds of vehicles and large equipment would go underneath it:

Foo::Mecha::Aeroplanes
Foo::Mecha::Cars
Foo::Mecha::Giant Robots
Foo::Mecha::Industrial Robots
Foo::Mecha::Motorcycles
Foo::Mecha::Naval Ships (currently Genre::SciFi::Ships::Marine)
Foo::Mecha::Powersuits
Foo::Mecha::Space Ships (currently Genre::SciFi::Ships::Space)
Foo::Mecha::Submarines (currently Genre::SciFi::Ships::Submarine)
Foo::Mecha::Tanks
Foo::Mecha::Trains

Genre::SciFi::Mecha::Androids, Genre::SciFi::Mecha::Cyborgs (and maybe others?) should go somewhere under Characters (eg Characters::AI::Androids and Characters::People::Cyborgs).

That's it for now.

[Elias]

Maybe another one:
Dynamic::Plot::Twisted (place for current Dementia genre)

In case of placing all vehicles and common under Mecha name - i do not agree. In anime Mecha states not for 'any mechanical thing' but 'big piloted armored robot' (sometimes it can be smaller, not piloted, not armored or not really robot, but in general this is mecha). A motorcycle or train rather do not looks like big robot (sometimes it can transform into big robot, but it mean it was mecha from start, only camouflaged as something different)...

But i think it can usable to add new category (Setting::Objects?? Dynamic:: Objects??) for objects, which have important meaning in anime action (not only beeing showed, in every second anime there are some buildings, some vehicles etc. but only as part of setting, not important for action) it can be big or small object from different classes, like:
Foo::Food::Bananas (Girls Bravo)
Foo::Buildings::Tokyo Tower (X)
Foo::Weapons::Swords (X, Rurouni Kenshin, Bleach)
Foo::Vehicles::Aeroplanes (Kumo no Mukou, Yakusoku no Basho)
Foo::Books (Chobits, Bible Black)
Foo::Clothes::Strawberry pantsu (Ichigo 100%)
Foo::Vehicles::Train (Kaze no Yojimbo)
Foo::Other::Cellphone (Hoshi no Koe)
Foo::Art::Painting (Canvas ~Motif of Sepia~)
Foo::Animals::Panda (Ranma 1/2)
Foo::Other::Moon (Seraphim Call)
Foo::Weapons::Guns (Grenadier ~Hohoemi no Senshi~)

Androids already are in Characters (wrong, i had checked now, they were here, but someone removed them, why?), Cyborgs? (INNOCENCE, Sin, AD Police - sure, there are cyborgs characters too)

[Elias]

New categories (with required two titles):
Characters::People::Mystical People::Goddessess
AA! Megami-sama (of course), Can Can Bunny Extra (another goddess granting wishes)

Setting::Place::School::Clubs
Genshiken, Canvas ~Motif of Sepia~

Genre::Drama::Romance::Harem (in that case it could be rather Genre::Comedy::Romance::Harem, but if Romance is under Drama, then let it be)
Fukatoi, Ichigo 100%

[Aidoku]

First, I have noting to say about the Audiance and setting categories, need to be developped, but it's really good. The only mistake (from my point of view) is Dystopia in "place", cause it's a category of sci-fi. And Dystopia is not the perfect word, cause sometime it wat Utopia, so Dystopia-Utopia is a bette way to say it.

Second thing, the content indicator... wow... can't do worst!
Some system work well, so why did you don't copy them?
Reed "Classification categories" and "additional info"
http://www.rcq.qc.ca/processusANG.asp
à 13 year+ movie is in this category for some reason, horror, violence... if the violence level is higher, the film is 16 year+
Don't need to have a content indicator to know that you can see... frontal nudity!

Finaly, the genre category, you can see my own table, made from the idea of this post and some personal idea. I know, it's not complete, but can give some idea.
http://membres.lycos.fr/mwnyl/Untitled-3.php
If some category definitions are not clear or not good, it can be change.
Some category are only theoric cause I'm not sure if some anime can fit to these category.

Thank You

Aidoku

P.S. Sorry about the pub in my list page... I know, it's not a beautiful page.
And sorry for the mistakes, I live in frenchspeeking country so my english in not the best.

[Andemon]

The only mistake (from my point of view) is Dystopia in "place", cause it's a category of sci-fi. And Dystopia is not the perfect word, cause sometime it wat Utopia, so Dystopia-Utopia is a bette way to say it.

Erm...
Dystopia is the opposite of Utopia. Blade Runner, A Clockwork Orange, and 1984 are all classic examples of dystopian societies.

Anime such as Wonderful Days, and Eternal Family fall in that category, as do Akira, Kaze no Tani no Nausicaa, and maybe even Blue Gender -- though to lesser degree. There's more listed in http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/dystopia_list.htm, but I'd argue that their list is rather too broad. (Full Metal Panic and .hack//SIGN = dystopias? Eh. -_-; )


Your genre list seems rather good overall, though. Fantasy::-branch in particular seems far better in your version -- and nice work with the descriptions...

[Rar]

Jesu, I don't want some Québécois imposed value judgement on what is and isn't suitable for the kids, thanks.

Andemon: Go read up on Dystopias again, you're less confused than he is, but Nausicaa is never one, and the others seem borderline.

Going back up a bit, BlckKnght: provide EXAMPLES with all categories suggested, don't just do it frivolously. Elias: read the posts in the thread before you, we've got Goddessess and Harem already. Also, prefer the wider (japanese rather than american) definition of mecha myself, but hey.

Oh, and I feel the need to express general discontent about people feeling the need to split stuff into characters and objects.

Rar

[Andemon]

Andemon: Go read up on Dystopias again, you're less confused than he is, but Nausicaa is never one, and the others seem borderline.

Hrm. I can list at least twenty sites right now that do list Nausicaä as a dystopian setting. I haven't actually watched it, but it's so widely quoted as an example of dystopian anime, that I thought that it must be. ...if I'm mistaken about that, I'm definitely not the only one.

EDIT: Now that I've read bit more about it, it does seem more like post-apocalyptic anime than dystopian. Sorry. -_-

Oh, and I feel the need to express general discontent about people feeling the need to split stuff into characters and objects.

I almost agree. Characters:: has it's uses, but Objects:: does seem somewhat excessive. Too much data -- do we really need to know what items play important roles in the anime...? -_-;

Foo::Weapons::Swords? Seriously, why not just use Genre::Action::Swordplay? That does imply that the anime has swords in it. Same goes for other suggestions -- either the important objects are so rare that they only appear in one anime, or their existance can already be implied with other existing categories. No need to complicate the system further.

----------------

...oh, and I do have a question about one of my suggestions that got rejected -- the ::Magical Girl-subcategory. Why exactly was it rejected?

Sailor Moon, Magical Stage Fancy Lala, Akazukin Chacha, Card Captor Sakura,... You know what I'm talking about, right? Transformations, fancy costumes, magical companions, magic accessories,...
http://henshin.anime-myth.com/

There's just so much of such anime that I feel that they deserve their own subcategory. -_-

[BlckKnght]

Going back up a bit, BlckKnght: provide EXAMPLES with all categories suggested, don't just do it frivolously.

Ok, examples, as best I can come up with:

Dynamic::Plot::Epic
Kin of the Stars, LoGH, Record of Lodoss War, lots of others

Dynamic::Plot::Episodic
GiTS SAC (the "Stand Alone" parts), Card Captor Sakura, lots of stuff I don't watch...

Dynamic::Plot::Tragedy
Grave of the Fireflies, Now and Then, Here and There,

Dynamic::Plot::Slice of Life
Twin Spica, Windy Tales

Characters::Students::Elementary School Students
Twin Spica (for some episodes), probably lots of kids shows

Characters::Students::Middle School Students
Hmm, nothing on my list, but I'm sure there are many

Characters::Students::High School Students
Azumanga Daioh, Windy Tales, Twin Spica

Characters::Students::College Students
Genshiken, Love Hina

Foo::Mecha::Aeroplanes
Last Exile, The Place Promised In Our Early Days, Stratos 4

Foo::Mecha::Cars
Initial D, Speed Racer

Foo::Mecha::Giant Robots
Neon Genesis Evangelion, Fullmetal Panic, Jinki:Extend

Foo::Mecha::Industrial Robots
Metropolis, Hi no Tori

Foo::Mecha::Motorcycles
Kino's Journey, Akira

Foo::Mecha::Naval Ships
Zipang, Full Metal Panic

Foo::Mecha::Powersuits
Bublegum Crisis, GiTS SAC

Foo::Mecha::Space Ships
Cowboy Bebop, PlanetES

Foo::Mecha::Submarines
Fullmetal Panic, a few others

Foo::Mecha::Tanks
Dominion Tank Police, GiTS SAC

Foo::Mecha::Trains
Kaze no Yojimbo (suggested by Elias), Take the X Train

[exp]

Second thing, the content indicator... wow... can't do worst!
Some system work well, so why did you don't copy them?
Reed "Classification categories" and "additional info"
http://www.rcq.qc.ca/processusANG.asp
à 13 year+ movie is in this category for some reason, horror, violence... if the violence level is higher, the film is 16 year+
Don't need to have a content indicator to know that you can see... frontal nudity!

the problem there is that all of the etablished content indicators are based on the ethic values of their country of origin. which makes them quite useless for anidb.
a detailed listing of all the elements of a show which _MIGHT_ be considered offending and not appropriate for jounger audiences in your country seems to be the better solution.

BYe!
EXP

[Elias]

Elias: read the posts in the thread before you, we've got Goddessess and Harem already.

Yes, goddesses and Harem were already requested (goddesses even twice) before and ... till now they are not added and we do not know if ever will. So i tried another time. In this thread there is lack of mods answers - if for every request would be clear answer: granted (and already added) or granted (and will be added soon), denied (and why denied), saved for later discussion - it could be more productive.

Also, prefer the wider (japanese rather than american) definition of mecha myself, but hey.

Wider definition for Genre::SciFi::Mecha or for Foo::Mecha?
For the second adding different mechanical vehicles is acceptable (but there is no such main genre), for the first adding trains or motorcycles unser SciFi genre looks strange IMHO.

Oh, and I feel the need to express general discontent about people feeling the need to split stuff into characters and objects.

I almost agree. Characters:: has it's uses, but Objects:: does seem somewhat excessive. Too much data -- do we really need to know what items play important roles in the anime...? -_-;

We know. Not every anime has such importent object. Some have only one, some have more. Example: Hoshi no Koe - if anyone has watched this title, is it obvious that cellurar phone is important for story here. Let say: if after taking off some object from anime, title will lost significant part of story - it mean this object is important, if story will stay rather incact - object was not important.
Maybe it is not as much usable for describing title, but for searching similar titles can be interesting (you saw some title where there are some special tank or magic book, and you can find some other with such attributes).

Foo::Weapons::Swords? Seriously, why not just use Genre::Action::Swordplay? That does imply that the anime has swords in it. Same goes for other suggestions -- either the important objects are so rare that they only appear in one anime, or their existance can already be implied with other existing categories. No need to complicate the system further.

Example: X - there are important swords, but used in swordplay only once and before there is lots of super power/magic battles. I didn't put here swordplay as a genre (or maybe with one little star as not very significiantfor this title), but swords itself have more meaning here.

[Andemon]

Dynamic::Plot::Tragedy
Grave of the Fireflies, Now and Then, Here and There,

Dynamic::Plot::Slice of Life
Twin Spica, Windy Tales

Those seem more like genres than dynamic to me.

Tragery is a subgenre of drama, so shouldn't it be Genre::Drama::Tragedy?

...and by it's most common definition, slice-of-life also falls under drama. Hence, Genre::Drama::Slice-of-life would be better. At least I think so. ...though simple Genre::Slice-of-life would work also. No need to mix up genres and dynamic, afaics...

(Hmm.. Maybe move ::Idol to Genre::Drama::Slice-of-life::Idol, too...?)

In this thread there is lack of mods answers - if for every request would be clear answer: granted (and already added) or granted (and will be added soon), denied (and why denied), saved for later discussion - it could be more productive.

Seconded.
As far as I'm concerned, what mods want should carry more weight than what I want. ...but the problem is, I don't know what they want -- except that I can well see that Rar isn't totally pleased with our current progress.

More mod feedback would be welcome. Does the genre list resemble what you want it to look like? What needs to reworked? Why were some suggestions ignored without obvious reason? ...etc.

[sjabbie]

Androids already are in Characters (wrong, i had checked now, they were here, but someone removed them, why?), Cyborgs? (INNOCENCE, Sin, AD Police - sure, there are cyborgs characters too)

It was entered twice. You can find it under SciFi::Mecha

And I don't think it's usefull to add a category with important objects. How many anime are there which involves important objects like bananas or strawberry pantsu. Some of them can be used as a category but not as an object category.

For example:

Genre::Action::Guns instead of Foo::Weapons::Guns
Genre::Drama::Art instead of Foo::Art::Painting

Foo::Weapons::Swords can fall under Genre::People::Samurai or Genre::Action::Swordsplay

And I agree with Andemon. Tragedy and Slice of Life should fall Drama.

[Elias]

Androids already are in Characters (wrong, i had checked now, they were here, but someone removed them, why?), Cyborgs? (INNOCENCE, Sin, AD Police - sure, there are cyborgs characters too)

It was entered twice. You can find it under SciFi::Mecha

Yes, but is different when androids are part of SciFi setting (there are some android walking and making something here and there, but none of them plays character role in title) or if they are character (even main character) of title. Chobits without Chii would not be the same anime.

[fahrenheit]

In this thread there is lack of mods answers - if for every request would be clear answer: granted (and already added) or granted (and will be added soon), denied (and why denied), saved for later discussion - it could be more productive.

Regarding this, some one could add a post (a mod preferably) with all the Accepted, Pending and Rejected cats, it would be easier to spot if a cat allready was accepted, if a request is futile or whatever, but i do think it should be done.

I would sugest expropriating the first post by Andemon.

[Rar]

Regarding this, some one could add a post (a mod preferably) with all the Accepted, Pending and Rejected cats, it would be easier to spot if a cat allready was accepted, if a request is futile or whatever, but i do think it should be done.

There's a good reason this hasn't been done - the mods are just as unsure over the issues this thread has raised as everyone else. This is why the discussion, and examples, are useful. Just because a particular category hasn't been added yet, or another one has, this does not been it's been 'accepted' or 'rejected', and particularly things like the exact branch a particular leaf is under is very flexible.

Not got the time to resond to some of the good points in detail, will do so later...

Rar