[FEEDBACK] new Genre System

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Do we have all needed genres listed?

Yes
10
38%
No
16
62%
 
Total votes: 26

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:22 pm

That is true, audience is not a genre. However, since we're revising the 'genre' system, and Exp is willing to modify the db code, I think it would be great to modify the current system to provide clear and more accurate information to users. I think this has been suggested before, and I'm probably going out on a limb, but I think not only re-think the genre system, but we should include fields for:

-Setting
-Target Audience

Although I don't completely agree with the audience suggestions Rar pointed out, I think it would be beneficial to include it as part of the DB along side with anime genres. Having these two new fields would minimize the 'main genres' that we're trying to decide and it would be less confusing to users when they're trying to decide what whatever anime is all about.

An example:

Anime: Kiddy Grade
Setting: Future, Space
Target Audience: Shounen
Main Genre: Action, Ecchi, Mecha, Sci-Fi
Sub Genre: Super Power

I placed Super Power as a sub genre since afaik, if an anime has super power, it is always has Action, but not the other way around.

For me, I think the list of main genres (if we disregard setting/audiences) should be:

Action
Adventure
Comedy
Drama
Ecchi
Fantasy
Hentai
Magic
Mystery
Romance
Science Fiction
Sports

Sub Genres:
Martial Arts (always tends to combine with action, but not the other way around)
Parody (always tends to combine with comedy, but not the other way around)
(Not quite sure atm of what else since I'm a bit lazy atm)

Edit: Well, if we include settings/target audience within the current system as categories, we would have to change the name of 'genres' to something like 'Classification' as Rar suggested to me or something to that effect since 'genres' would be very misleading and confusing.

Then if that's the case, it would be something like:
Anime: Kiddy Grade
Classification:
-Setting: Future, Space
-Target Audience: Shounen
-Main Genre: Action, Ecchi, Mecha, Sci-Fi
-Sub Genre: Super Power
Last edited by Ultima on Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:18 pm

I wouldn't add mecha as a main genre but a subgenre (of Sci-Fi).

Raptor
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Post by Raptor » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:52 pm

one thing is essential and its that we forget about the "subgenre of" idea. Why because there will always be exceptions and having to add a main genre that doesnt fit just to allow a subgenre would be really stupid. So subgenre is a great idea but not related to anything.

in fact some anime willl have only subgenres.

Example: Cat soup will only have the subgenre dementia.


I also think that the setting idea is great. historical, school, space and maybe even fantasy would belong there more then as a genre.

ultima example is perfect i think.

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:22 pm

DonGato wrote:I wouldn't add mecha as a main genre but a subgenre (of Sci-Fi).
Yeah, I agree.

Well after talking with other mods, perhaps we should use genre treeing and exp's suggested 5 star system.

Examples:
Hikaru no Go
Classification:
-Setting: Present::Fictional::Japan (Modern)::School
-Target Audience: Shounen
-Genre: Sports

Kiddy Grade
Classification:
-Setting: Future::Fictional::Space
-Target Audience: Shounen
-Genre: Action::Super Power, Ecchi, Sci-Fi::Mecha, Sci-Fi::Power Suits, Sci-Fi::AI, Sci-Fi::Robots, Sci-Fi::Ships

Naruto
Classification:
-Setting: Past::Fictional::Japan (Feudal)
-Target Audience: Shounen
-Genres: Action::Martial Arts::Ninja, Adventure, Comedy, Drama

Rurouni Kenshin OVA 1
Classfication
-Setting: Past::Historical::Japan (Edo Period)
-Target Audience: Seinen
-Genres: Action::Martial Arts::Samurai, Drama, Romance

Afterwards we can assign upto 5 (or whatever) stars to indicate relavence.

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Post by Raptor » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:23 pm

About adding mecha as a subgenre of sci-fi what do you do with escaflowne?

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:28 pm

Maybe this can shed some light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction

Sci-Fi isn't (IMO) intended only for Setting:Future.

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exp
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Post by exp » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:40 pm

well,

maybe I'll say a bit more about the way I first though about this as there seem to be some misconceptions about my suggestion.

a) the 'tree' like structure of the genres (we may well call them categories) is only ment to provide a better overview. An anime which has the category Action::Sports does NOT have to have the category Action, in fact if it does have it, it should be added seperatly.
So such an anime would be listed as: Action, Action::Sports

b) every category, on every level has a 1 to 5 stars rating which underlines it's importance in the anime. a subcategory does not mean that that aspect is in anyway less important than a main category.
So an Action (2/5), Action::Sports (5/5) anime would be mainly about sports and have only some action elements.

c) a sub category may NOT appear under more than one main category. In fact I was thinking about making all category names unique in the database. That means that there may also not be any categories on different levels with the same name.
IMHO this does not pose a problem as having a category X::Y for an anime does NOT imply that is has category X too. So if Y would also be needed for Z::Y one could simply add X::Y.

d) I would probably not set any depth limit, so there could be as many levels in the category 'tree' as are usefull.

e) In the first phase only mods would be able to add/edit categories

f) mods would be able to add new categories on demand

g) ... (probably more to come)

Again please note that these are simply suggestions how I think it could be done. Nothing has been decided yet so feel free to offer your own suggestions.

BYe!
EXP

pelican
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Post by pelican » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:12 am

Since there seems to be support for splitting the categories into genres, settings, etc., how about we start drafting detailed listings? This is my attempt at settings, although it's missing many nodes and some probably need to be shuffled around.

(Also, Future::Fictional? What other kind is there? :wink: )

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:39 am

Right, I'm convinced the best way to tackle this is a bit at a time, breaking up one topic into smaller ones. So, sports.

[Edit: Full list removed, I have saved it though]

Note, I listed everything once only, even though some (Adachi at least) should have a couple. So, striping the ones that are one-anime-only, we have:

Sports: (120 anime)
:Baseball (19)
:Basketball (9)
:Boxing (10)
:Driving (where's freaking Initial D?) (12)
:Fighting (er...) (18)
:Football (13)
:Golf (3)
:Gymnastics (plus touch etc) (1)
:Judo (3)
:Football (13)
:Tennis (7)
:Volleyball (5)

Fun, eh?

Rar

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:58 am

I do think that's a little too complex. The rating system will be hard to administer as people will have different ideas of which rate to give to a category or category:subgenre. After understanding a little more what exp had in mind I don't like it that much. :/
Last edited by DonGato on Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:59 am

That's what mods are for, Don.

Rar

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:05 am

(Also, Future::Fictional? What other kind is there? ;) )


Yeah, I know, I was trying to do this scheme:
(Past/Present/Future)::(Fictional/Historical)::(Place or Time Period)::(Place [if needed])

So I was trying to have something opposite of historical :P

Good effort by pelican and rar :)
Last edited by Ultima on Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

pelican
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Post by pelican » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:06 am

IMO, the point of rating genres for anime is to avoid the incessant requests to add comedy to <every anime in the db with a joke> and drama to <every anime in the db with characters>, etc.

For that matter, can we have a profile option not to display genres rated (at or) below a certain threshold? :)

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:07 am

As I said... it will be a little too complex. :/
And even mods will have issues about which values to asign to them. It's impossible to agree 100% of the times.
IMO subgenres were meant to take care of the issue with weak genres.

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:10 am

It may seem complex at first, but once we have a definite structure and a particular list of available genres, it should be easier to get used to. As for assigning values to the genres, nothing can be 100% perfect, but it will be definitely more accurate and more informative than the present system. It's a given that this will be a lot of work ^_^; The way I see it, the system can be only better than worse even with the complexities.

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