Episode order - R2 DVD vs R1 DVD vs TV (jap)

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Der Idiot
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Episode order - R2 DVD vs R1 DVD vs TV (jap)

Post by Der Idiot » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:16 pm

Arjuna
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=101084
as this creq doesn't seem to be going anywhere. repost. mabe this will start some discussion.
ngefreak wrote:The episodes numbers should be rearranged:
S1 -> 09
09 -> 10
10 -> 11
11 -> 12
12 -> 13

The official site (http://www.bandaivisual.co.jp/arjuna/) lists the episodes up to 13. Also, at the title of each episode the count goes up to 13 too.
Der Idiot wrote:hmmm tricky. the fansubs aka the tv version was 12 eps and the 13th ep was only on dvd. so to say it`s a dvd special. and as far as i have seen it dvd specials get added as specials.
Wlah wrote:we really need a set line for that... Just look at the onegai teacher/twins extra episode.. that`s added as a seperate entry
Rar wrote:This appears to be going nowhere. In general, dvd speacials and extra episodes are *not* considered to be part of the tv series as a whole, see the Gantz problem for a counter case though. This needs more discussion, post this request in the dbcreq forum if you want any movement on it.
Last edited by Der Idiot on Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Der Idiot » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:30 pm

basically we have 3 cases:
- TV > DVD
- DVD > TV
- seperate anime entries for specials

ok so far we had some cases like:
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... search.y=0
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... search.y=0
TV > R1 DVD

then we had:
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... e&aid=2400
R2 DVD > TV

now wlah also mentioned onegai twins/teacher OVA's which have seperate entries from the main anime. even thought it's kinda like just another episode.

imho r2dvd > tv > r1dvd

as for specials like onegai teacher/twins. If the title of the anime clearly states special/ova whatever it deserves a seperate animeentry if not it's just another dvd special and should get added to the main anime.

as for this specific case I favor the 13 eps solution.

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Post by Ultima » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:21 am

[19:16] <@Ultima> imo deridiot, the question for arjuna lies in where the episode fits
[19:17] <@Ultima> if the episode was intended to be broadcasted, but wasn't broadcasted on tv for whatever reasons, then it should be 13 episode
[19:17] <@Ultima> however, if is just a dvd only special, it should be a special
[19:18] <@Ultima> like if I remember correctly
[19:19] <@Ultima> fumoffu had an episode that was supposed to be aired on tv, but it was not broadcasted because it dealt with kidnappings or something
[19:19] <@Ultima> and at the time it was a touchy issue because of the news in japan.. iirc
[19:19] <@Ultima> but it was included on the dvd..
[19:19] <@Ultima> but it 'was' supposed to be aired
[19:19] <@Ultima> also with koi kaze
[19:20] <@Ultima> one station didn't air an episode.. while another station did
[19:20] <@Ultima> but it still is part of the original episode order..
Just to quote what I think ^_^;

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Post by Der Idiot » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:38 pm

forgot the ranma creq last time as it's also valid:
Ranma 1/2
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... q.id=93162
http://www.anidb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2982

and another one:
Wolfs Rain - 30 vs 26+4ep special
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=115113
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=115114
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=115115
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=115116
lcalabrese wrote:Bandai`s website lists these episodes (27-30) as part of the series (and they have episode numbers in sequence, so why shouldn`t we follow suit? I suppose technically they can be considered "special" eps but we should be following Bandai`s lead...
[19:17] <@Ultima> if the episode was intended to be broadcasted, but wasn't broadcasted on tv for whatever reasons, then it should be 13 episode
[19:17] <@Ultima> however, if is just a dvd only special, it should be a special
"how it was intented to be shown." yes thats quite right, but the point is is that something you can work with as Mod? I mean where the hell do you get the information that tells you thats the way the director wanted it to be? for well known things or rather new things like koi kaze, fumoffo thats quite easy. but lets just go a few years back to the first creq arjuna. what with that? see thats where the problems starts. I would prefer something like either tv order (which like in case of fumoffo would be wrong) or r2 dvd ep order. something that you can easily look up and confirm it's right.

"how it was intented to be shown." is surely the way more right way, but makes just modding so much harder and leaves creqs like gantz, arjuna, ranma, wolf rain open for months without any progress!

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Post by Der Idiot » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:56 pm

*bump*
in hope this gets a bit more attention and we can finally gets some movement in this discussion I moved it out of the internals.


one thing i forgot to mention r1 dvd order is basically out of question and is only used for things for which neither the r2 dvd (jap) or the tv (jap) order is known.

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Post by egg » Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:06 pm

Also, there is ep 27 & 28 in .hack//SIGN.

Here are my ideas about how to handle things in general.
  • If TV > R2, then use the TV as the episode guide.
  • If R2 > TV, A special/extra episode should be considered an episode in the following cases:
    1. It was intended to be an episode (you can tell by the marketing/labeling), if it is listed as Ep XX on the DVD, the website says it has an ep #, ...
    2. The original story is left unfinished and the episodes completes it and/or fills in the gaps. (IIRC this is the case with Wolf's Rain and from what I have read, GANTZ.)
  • If R2 > TV, A special should be considered a special in that anime if it is released on the same DVD.
  • If R2 > TV, A special should be considered a separate entry if it was released independently from the episode DVDs.
  • If R2 != TV, Then use the "most complete" one as the episode guide, or you could use the oldest one.
As Der Idiot said, use R1 as a last resort.

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Post by Der Idiot » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:37 am

and another one:

Dears:
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... .id=123244
This is the unaired episode from the DVD - Should be moved to S10, or the rest of the episodes should be renumbered and S10 should be moved to ep 10
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... 26&nonav=1
S10 "It`s the Golden Bead - Unaired Episode 10 on the DVD"
Episode 10 is part of the continuity, it was merely not aired on the TV run. As I understand it, like ep18 of pokemon (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... 5#eid_3275), it should be counted as a regular episode.

EPs 10-12 (really 11-13) need to be moved up out the way, unfortunately there`s no sane way to encode this into a CREQ. So, what I`m really requesting is:

this EP`s number is changed from S10 to 10
EP10`s number is changed to 11
EP11`s number is changed to 12
EP12`s number is changed to 13

Apologies for the imposition :)
Last edited by Der Idiot on Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:09 pm

I'm for original Japan TV airing order with the exception of Gantz
as for separate entries, depends if the name has been changed and also a bit of the fact, when it was released...

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Post by rowaasr13 » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:31 pm

Well, sometimes original order is changed by chanel, not by producers and restored in re-airings. So why follow decision of one chanel, if anime producers show order otherwise?

There are previous examples of that. For example Gad Guard: on first air ep. 6 were removed and all following eps shifted by one. However, all subsequent airs, DVD release and ep. list on official site show order with that missing episode where it should be, so shouldn't that order be "most correct"?

I think previous messages in this thread say same thing.

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:06 am

and Gad Guard's ep order includes episode 6 that wasn't aired on that TV channel, that's one of the exceptions like Gantz cause normally, the tv channels air animes according to how they were supposed to air

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Post by Der Idiot » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:17 am

great more exceptions ^^;
we are nearing again the modunfriendly "how it was supposed" order which we have atm...

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Post by DonGato » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:06 pm

What a mess... someone tell the Japaneses to stop messing with AniDB! :P
Anyway, I think there is no good solution. Or we have two entries (one for TV and one for DVD) or we start to normalize the use of specials. There is not much problem when you've the episode as last one but what happens when it's in the middle like GANTZ? 8O (THE HORROR!!!).

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Post by NGEfreak » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:00 pm


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Post by Der Idiot » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:33 am

maybe (?!) a solution to the problem

http://www.anidb.net/tracker/view.php?id=140

if anyone has some other ideas or knows something better please add it. we have to get some movement in this finally.

and another one:
G-on Riders
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... 80&nonav=1

s1 = dvd only ep 14

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Post by Raptor » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:40 pm

The idea behind the 3 ep order is extremelly good and could help a lot in understanding whats happening in all this mess. Maybe it could help me track those special eps that i need to see when it get released on dvd.

There is only one little problem. In wich sections belong the damn parody subs?

also the ep number of the series could be a problem as it would often vary depending on wich order we take. Then when would a series be completed?

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