Vote normalization

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 pm

I think this might be time/processor consuming for the server so he doesn't want to spoil the fun we have discussing this with a "can't be done".

donfischi · Post by **donfischi** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:12 pm

kamenoko wrote:Do I think Genshiken is one of the top 10 animes of all time? Good god no, but it's there at the moment, and doesn't deserve 1's just because some fanboys anime got knocked out of the top 10. That's kind of why I started this thread in the first place

ok i totaly got you wrong before, sorry.

i totally agree with you.

egg · Post by **egg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:13 pm

DonGato wrote:I think this might be time/processor consuming for the server so he doesn't want to spoil the fun we have discussing this with a "can't be done".

That depends on how he implements this... Since it is done as a maintenance program and/or when a user votes anyway it really would not be that much of an affect (only once a day).

He could implement part of it (only counting votes from users who meet the criteria of the anime hint) very easily and things would actually end up being FASTER because there would be fewer records to deal with.

Also there may be ways to optimize it anyway, for instance if he is doing the calculations in perl, then that would make it inefficient, there is too much overhead to load and save the values. It can be handled directly in the DB, it can be done as a single update statement or if locking is an issue then it can be done using temp tables.

BTW, for simplicity's sake (and speed) I think the requirements to get a vote counted and to use the anime hint should be the same. The main cost (speed/CPU Usage) of doing the user filtering is figuring out which users should be filtered.

The remaining issue is what to do with the votes that don't count in the overall calculations?
1) I think the "raw" votes should also be displayed on the Anime page.
2) The votes should be shown in the graph. There should be another graph added, one for permanent counted votes and one for permanent "raw" votes.
3) Users should be able to tell in myplace/myvotes if their votes are not counted with information on how to make them count.

kamenoko · Post by **kamenoko** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:37 pm

Just a little bump. not much, on what planet does Beyond the Clouds deserve 10 no votes?

I've got a simple solution, track down the people who do correction votes in the top 10, and prevent them from voting in the future, while nerfing the votes they've already done.

OnegaiNL · Post by **OnegaiNL** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:45 am

kamenoko wrote:Just a little bump. not much, on what planet does Beyond the Clouds deserve 10 no votes?

I've got a simple solution, track down the people who do correction votes in the top 10, and prevent them from voting in the future, while nerfing the votes they've already done.

people just voted that high because it's an OVA and OVA usually come out in DVD quality

I voted 8 though

hhaamu · Post by **hhaamu** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:06 am

OnegaiNL wrote:
kamenoko wrote:Beyond the Clouds
people just voted that high because it's an OVA and OVA usually come out in DVD quality

*cough* It's a movie. Also, I fail to see why would people vote high just because whoever subbed it ripped it from a DVD. There are other elements that makes a good movie/series than just video quality.

Anyway, I did not read the thread, but I noticed that on one day, perhaps a week back, Kenshin OVA and FMA got both 15+ hatevotes, effectively dropping their rating by about 0.1. Perhaps someone should investigate that (see: the Elfen Lied case)

CheesyP18 · Post by **CheesyP18** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:19 pm

voting high cause of video quality...that happens because when the video quality goes up, you can see the animation more clearly...and that movie definitely has some good animation and deserves some brownie points for that

OnegaiNL · Post by **OnegaiNL** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:02 pm

CheesyP18 wrote:voting high cause of video quality...that happens because when the video quality goes up, you can see the animation more clearly...and that movie definitely has some good animation and deserves some brownie points for that

ehm, normally people watch the TV version only... so they vote according to that quality... and besides there's not that much difference ... and i vote according to the story quality not trough graphical quality.... because even if the show has quality graphical wise.... if the story is crap i would vote it lower anyways.

You don't vote a book for the cover ^_^ ... well maybe 1 point should go to graphics but not more than that

kamenoko · Post by **kamenoko** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:30 pm

*nudge* *nudge* exp, any comments, complaints, recipes for key lime pie?

CheesyP18 · Post by **CheesyP18** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:45 am

OnegaiNL wrote:
CheesyP18 wrote:voting high cause of video quality...that happens because when the video quality goes up, you can see the animation more clearly...and that movie definitely has some good animation and deserves some brownie points for that
ehm, normally people watch the TV version only... so they vote according to that quality... and besides there's not that much difference ... and i vote according to the story quality not trough graphical quality.... because even if the show has quality graphical wise.... if the story is crap i would vote it lower anyways.

You don't vote a book for the cover ^_^ ... well maybe 1 point should go to graphics but not more than that

hmm..explain why there is an "animation" category in all reviews?

Andemon · Post by **Andemon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:40 am

Let me get this straight -- there are users out there whose ratings are affected by the quality of version they happened to watch? As in, they watch some low-quality rip, and let *that* affect their ratings?

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that? -_-;

OnegaiNL · Post by **OnegaiNL** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:07 am

CheesyP18 wrote:
OnegaiNL wrote:
CheesyP18 wrote:voting high cause of video quality...that happens because when the video quality goes up, you can see the animation more clearly...and that movie definitely has some good animation and deserves some brownie points for that
ehm, normally people watch the TV version only... so they vote according to that quality... and besides there's not that much difference ... and i vote according to the story quality not trough graphical quality.... because even if the show has quality graphical wise.... if the story is crap i would vote it lower anyways.

You don't vote a book for the cover ^_^ ... well maybe 1 point should go to graphics but not more than that
hmm..explain why there is an "animation" category in all reviews?

even if they vote for animation here... i don't give a crap about it as long as the story is good, b/c that's what it's all about eventually.

Rafal · Post by **Rafal** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:01 pm

I don't know if anyone has suggested this idea before, but how about disregarding the highest and lowest 10% of votes (or 5%) as to eliminate all the reactionary 'hate-votes' and the mindless fanboy praise. I've seen this system implemented on a Japanese bishoujo game site and it seems to work pretty well there.

As for the voting system used for a review, I don't like how animation, sound, story, character, value and enjoyment are all adding the same weight to the overall score of an anime. I think the overall rating should not be a weighted average of those at all, but should have a seperate rating independent of the scores given on seperate aspects. The overall rating should represent how you rate the anime as a whole, and can not be determined by a fixed weighted average from six chosen aspects of an anime. I would also suggest that this score can be rated on a 20 point rating scale.

Example vote:

Overall: 8.5 (the old avg rating would give 7.7; you can also vote lower here of course)
Animation: 6
Sound: 7
Story: 8
Character: 9
Value: 7
Enjoyment: 9

What do you think about these two suggestions?

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:26 pm

I don't know... I care more about Story and Animation than Character.

Rafal · Post by **Rafal** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:46 pm

DonGato wrote:I don't know... I care more about Story and Animation than Character.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're free to give a lower overall rating in that case (mine was just an example). That's exactly the reason why I suggested to make certain aspects of an anime like Animation, Story, etc. independent from the overall rating, as everyone has a different opinion about the importance of each of them. Another reason for my suggestion is that I believe the whole is often greater than the sum of its parts (or the average of its parts in this case). 'Greater' does not mean 'better' here, btw.