Filtering "hatevotes"

Forum for discussing AniDB rules & standards. No small talk!

Moderator: AniDB

Skywalka
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:57 pm

Post by Skywalka » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:54 am

Rar wrote:
Skywalka wrote:We had this discussion in the past and it was denied.
Yeah, I wondered how Skywalka had morphed this into a denied request, when it was just a slap and he was about the only person against it. I bet you look at his votes and they're all 10-s and 1-s. :P

At any rate, I think this probably falls into the good-idea-but-too-much-hassle pile along with other wonderful things (shadow files!) - so probably no exp gained. If the one-user-70-accounts-to-vote-10 thing happens a few more times though, some kinda slow-'em-down mechanism might be needed.

Rar
Like I said, if that is realyl the case, then those users should be manually deleted after running a certain check routine.

Concerning that discussion - again, you might be right, it might have not been a feature request but then again - didn't we all discuss it like it was?

I can't find the thread and don't know if I was the only one, right now I am close to asking for proof but it doesn't really matter, if I was the only one I was and you are right. But still - why do you think it is good to get rid of all the votes that might be valid? Wouldn't it be wrong to delete the votes of maybe 10.000 users just to get rid of those who registered multiple times and votes 1 on a couple of Anime?

@Elias: I really don't get your problem - the top ten changes in places from 5 to 8 and all that happens is that two pais of Anime change the places. Even if there is a direct list on the main page:

-honestly-

-think-

-about-

-it-

When was the last time you really checked that list for changes? If the list was that important and if changes were important, to give you a counter-argument, then there would be arrows showing when something changed, like in the music top ten or sport result tables.

I noticed ONCE that Kenshin is on place one and afterwards never looked at it again, for I don't deem it to be a good idea to get new Anime there. On the one hand I already had all those listed, on the other hand if I wasn't collecting all I can get I would not use that list to get new Anime hints, I would use the Anime hint feature, the new added Anime list to find fresh stuff and if that would not work I would use the relationship graphs to find stuff that might have slipped through my fingers and THEN I'd use the genre feature to find Anime that are close to what I like, for instance the Ghibli category.

egg
Posts: 769
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:17 am

Post by egg » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:25 am

Skywalka wrote:I can't find the thread and don't know if I was the only one, right now I am close to asking for proof but it doesn't really matter, if I was the only one I was and you are right.
I repeat:
egg wrote:For those of you who want more reading: Slapping people who rate animes 1
No, you were not the only one, I was one of the people against it, it's just that people remember your lovely disposition. :wink:

User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Post by Gambit » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:49 am

Elias wrote:And who votes 1-10 for animes to made them place little higher or lower in top? If top is so unimportant why placing it on main anidb page?
Honestly, I requested to remove similar top-rankings from the main page before. Most users, Most files, Best Group ... I don`t see what the use is of those stats at all except slowing the server when it updates.

On a sidenote (or rather, main note since this thread is about 1 votes), I will vote anime 1's eventually, just because there`s too much out there to put on a 2-10 scale. Currently Cosprayers, Green Green OVA and a few others are on that 2 or 3 and will possibly drop to the 1 eventually when I find that my votes aren`t enough to fit other series in. Like, a series is too good for a 5 and too bad for a 6, but also too bad for having a similar vote for a certain other anime which also has a 5.
So eventually you start revoting in order to get a better organisation in ratings. In that way I think it might be better to switch from a 1-10 rating to a 1-100 rating, so you can add slightly different votes between a range of 5 and 6 for instance. That will also cause less 1-votes from valid users and might improve the accuracy of votes.
I`ve seen lots of cases where people couldn`t decide between a 5 or a 6 after all, including my own, so I don`t think this is such a weird request after all :)

User avatar
DonGato
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!
Contact:

Post by DonGato » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:36 pm

Gambit wrote:
Elias wrote:And who votes 1-10 for animes to made them place little higher or lower in top? If top is so unimportant why placing it on main anidb page?
Honestly, I requested to remove similar top-rankings from the main page before. Most users, Most files, Best Group ... I don`t see what the use is of those stats at all except slowing the server when it updates.
A vote from me for that.
Gambit wrote:I`ve seen lots of cases where people couldn`t decide between a 5 or a 6 after all, including my own, so I don`t think this is such a weird request after all :)
I wouldn't go for 1-100 for sure but having .5 would be a nice addition.

User avatar
Elias
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:55 pm

Post by Elias » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:19 pm

Gambit wrote:
Elias wrote:And who votes 1-10 for animes to made them place little higher or lower in top? If top is so unimportant why placing it on main anidb page?
Honestly, I requested to remove similar top-rankings from the main page before. Most users, Most files, Best Group ... I don`t see what the use is of those stats at all except slowing the server when it updates.
Most users and group stats are not as bad, but i would also remove TOP10 and place instead list of animes with AR awards - it would be better quality rating. I personally do not care about anime position in top, but about over/underrated average vote resulted from staying in top (as target for fans of other titles).

As for voting, when AOM 0.6 will be ready and generics appears to all titles, why not add requirement: to vote on anime you have to have this anime in mylist (voting for titles, for which you havent watched any episode are not acceptable).
Last edited by Elias on Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Skywalka
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:57 pm

Post by Skywalka » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:20 pm

you could make it a 1 to 20 rating then :P

And I agree, the stats on the main page are useless for us, but I think for the users who come to AniDB for the first time it actually something that might be interesting for them and a reason to sign on.

User avatar
DonGato
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!
Contact:

Post by DonGato » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:43 pm

Elias wrote:As for voting, when AOM 0.6 will be ready and generics appears to all titles, why not add requirement: to vote on anime you have to have this anime in mylist (voting for titles, for which you havent watched any episode are not acceptable).
I think that should be enforced.

User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Post by Gambit » Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:51 pm

@Skywalka - why not displaying the ARC Awards instead then? Would give them at least the idea which series were good enough for last year. You could even add the 2004 ones as well, since we are almost finished those as well ;) I`d say those are more useful than 'Best Group' or 'Most files' or anything.

egg
Posts: 769
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:17 am

Post by egg » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:17 pm

If the number of users is added to the animelist and the number of files added to the group list, then they could be removed from the main screen AND that would also satisfy the requests of people who say they want the lists to show the top 100.

The number of users would be handy in the animelist because it gives you a general idea of the number of sources you might find.

Amour
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:19 pm
Location: France

Post by Amour » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:34 pm

Elias wrote:I calculated top 10 (what would be average vote if votes '1' would be removed). If it would be 0.3 for all titles, it would be not a problem, but this difference differs for each title:
1. 8.94 -> 9.27 +0.33
2. 8.93 -> 9.20 +0.27
3. 8.84 -> 9.03 +0.19
4. 8.81 -> 9.03 +0.21
5. 8.73 -> 8.88 +0.15
6. 8.71 -> 8.93 +0.22
7. 8.68 -> 8.76 +0.08
8. 8.65 -> 8.84 +0.19
9. 8.57 -> 8.71 +0.14
If votes '1' don't count, then people would vote '2'.
The results become :
1. 8.94 -> 8.97 +0.03
2. 8.93 -> 8.96 +0.03
3. 8.84 -> 8.86 +0.02
4. 8.81 -> 8.83 +0.02
5. 8.73 -> 8.75 +0.02
6. 8.71 -> 8.73 +0.02
7. 8.68 -> 8.69 +0.01
8. 8.65 -> 8.67 +0.02
9. 8.57 -> 8.59 +0.02

That makes NO difference at all.

User avatar
Elias
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:55 pm

Post by Elias » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:52 pm

Try recounting again assuming that all those 1 votes are from users which do not 'qualifies' to be counted for average votes (because propably only voted 1 and 10 (and minimum variety is 3 different votes), if it would be 2 and 10 result is the same - they still not qualifies - those votes are just discarded when 'official' average is calculated).

lamer_de
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:44 am

Post by lamer_de » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:26 am

I would vote against placing the AR awards on the first page instead of the votes from anidb. The userbase is vastly different. And I doubt you'll get 1500+ people participate on any ARC award as well. I don't need any "Top 10" list at all, so I'm fine with removing it altogether.

CU,
lamer_de

egg
Posts: 769
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:17 am

Post by egg » Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:57 pm

There should be statistics about the database on the front page, like in the irc channel topic/AOM. # animes, episodes, files, users...

hhaamu
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:59 am

Post by hhaamu » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:40 pm

Skywalka wrote:That ski-jumping example is impossible to do without putting a heavy load on the server I think, and additionally what's the use of that? Every 1 and 10 cancel each other out with in the end leaving some.
I can agree that it's not feasible because of the extra load to the server, but it would not produce useless results, given that about (say) 5% of the votes are discarded to partially/fully kill the extreme votes. However, I wish not to argue about this, as there have been a number of good ideas on this thread on how to fix something that's not exactly broken (technically, the current voting system works, it's the users that can make it break).

Elberet's idea that somehow got lost in another thread is IMHO the best so far, as it perhaps would give a true distribution of votes, given that people actually are active updating their favourite series :| . Of course, this would mean more coding for exp. If that's not possible, I vote for removing the stats off the main page (for the time being?).


Slightly off-topic, but: hmm, looking at some of my votes, I should reevaluate them :oops:
Wish there was a way not to reset the date the vote was cast on when recasting one *will probably file another feature request soon*

egg
Posts: 769
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:17 am

Post by egg » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:31 pm

hhaamu wrote:Wish there was a way not to reset the date the vote was cast on when recasting one *will probably file another feature request soon*
Look at: Chii: improved vote dates.

Locked