[ADD][CATEGORY] Consensual sex and affection

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guillep2k
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[ADD][CATEGORY] Consensual sex and affection

Post by guillep2k » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:26 pm

Hi!

Since most hentai anime I've found is about raping, girls resisting (at least at the beginning), guys being abused, or even some form of S/M, it would be great to tell apart the anime like Futari Ecchi or Hatsu Inu, where most of the sex is consensual and showing affection from BOTH characters. Therefore, I would like to add "consensual" and "affection" as two new categories (perhaps below "hentai"?). Is this possible?

Guille

Der Idiot
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Post by Der Idiot » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 pm

no that's not how this should work. sex by default is always consentual. if you want to exclude rape then just do so. the advanced search interfsce for this isn't doen yet, but you can use it already

http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?sh ... d=86-33+30
+sex
+hentai
-rape

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:16 pm

Hi, Der Idiot. What about the "affection" category, then? In most Hentai anime the characters do NOT show affection (caring) to each other; sexual intercourse is mostly fisical. A caring, tender and affecting love making scene is a most exceptional situation that I would like to be pointed out.

On the other hand, "consensual" might actually be unnecesary, but the typical hentai situation involves one of the two characters being slightly abused (e.g., a married guy feels guilty about cheating his wife while a female co-worker starts giving him a BJ against his will thus carrying him to the point of no return, or one of the two characters completely intimidated by the other). I would dare to say that at least half of the non-raping hentai anime sex scenes fall under this situation. This is not usually marked as "rape" or "sexual abuse", although there is a fine line. That is why I wanted to differentiate these situations. The default would be "consensual, but with some degree of resistance", and the exceptions would be "fully consensual" and "rape". May be "sexual abuse" should be more widely used?

Either way, I would REALLY like the "affection"/"caring"/"loving sex" category added. Don't you agree with this at least?

Der Idiot
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Post by Der Idiot » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:24 pm

sounds like romance to me

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:31 pm

Well, I think it is not "romance". It can be you with the girl next door, a sexual partner with no romance, etc. and still be a caring sexual intercourse. "Romance" involves a romantic plot or romantic development, don't you think?

Der Idiot
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Post by Der Idiot » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:41 pm

depends on the weight. a low romance weight + sex can very well mean what you want.

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:22 pm

OK, I guess you have a very different idea of this than me. There is no way I could search the AniDB database with your purposed criteria and obtain the anime list I want. Categorization is not useful for the people who categorize but for the people using that information. If people who categorize find the criteria confusing or misleading, they won't use it. I would like people adding new anime to use these categories so people like me can find these anime without having to watch an endless list of boring and sadding abuse-driven hentai to find the pearls.

I feel that you totally oppose adding these new categories. If you do, please state so clearly so I don't insist any more. I think at least "caring" or "affection" is a well-defined category and that has nothing to do with romance (I've had "caring" and "affecting" sex without a trace of romance myself, so I don't see the point of tying it to "romance"). I don't see what's to lose adding this category at least.

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:03 am

This is the three-state-bool problem, which I've mostly tried to batter into people over the category system, but it's not always easy to resolve.
Essentially, a category can be either true, false, or unknown (as-yet-unset). This means the test for (cat!=true) is not as useful as it would otherwise be, so we largely want all important options set-able somewhere, even if that means some redundancy.
Obvious example: we have a (Original Work::New) category, even though that is the same as what (Original Work::(none)) would be. The (none) set state can then be used as the unset/unknown.

Rar

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:03 pm

Rar wrote:This is the three-state-bool problem, which I've mostly tried to batter into people over the category system, but it's not always easy to resolve.
Essentially, a category can be either true, false, or unknown (as-yet-unset). This means the test for (cat!=true) is not as useful as it would otherwise be, so we largely want all important options set-able somewhere, even if that means some redundancy.
Obvious example: we have a (Original Work::New) category, even though that is the same as what (Original Work::(none)) would be. The (none) set state can then be used as the unset/unknown.

Rar
I know what you mean, and it certainly could be like that. The problem here is that only a handful of hentai anime match the category I'm talking about, even among those not marked as "rape". If that's the case, how can it be the "default"? Aren't they the exception instead?

Guille

amidsal
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Post by amidsal » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:52 am

Hi Guille,

I believe I undestand exactly what you are you trying to do because I had the same problem with Anime/Hentai genres. There are two problems in the "affection" genre you are trying to add:

The first (and, in my opinion, the MAIN problem) is that this genre is too abstract/subjective to be used: that's because the way you see it is not the way other user will see. I had some experience when classifying some erotic stories with a similar genre (love) but other users argued because they didn't understand the story as I did. Neither were wrong; just distinct points of view. In the end, it failed miserably.

The second problem is that those genres are not mutually exclusive with sex and/or romance, although if it didn't suffer from the first problem it could be merged with romance/sex.

The only solution I found when I was searching for stories with this theme is to search for things that are included in your "affection" genre, like romance, first time, virgin, and judging it by the synopsis. It matched between 85 and 90 percent of the times for what I was looking for. One thing that could be done to easy your (our) life is to write a good synopsis. There's no substitute to it.

Later dude,

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HiEv
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Post by HiEv » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:50 am

And keep in mind that an anime could have both a romantic sex scene and a rape scene. I've seen a few where I was like, "Wait, she was just raped, and now he's comforting her by having sex with her? WTF?!?"

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:20 am

Hi, amidsal, I think I'm getting the point. I just come from watching Shoya -Virgin Night- and the sex scene, despite being carried with tenderness and love, has the girl suffering most of the time for it being her first time.

I guess I just want to see more H with people smiling all the way through, but it seems studios find it to be uninteresting and lacking of an edge. So I'm giving up with this being a category. It's a pity the tag system isn't sercheable yet, even with the new full text search in place.

Guille

Der Idiot
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Post by Der Idiot » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:17 am

tags are private hence oyu cna only search your very own tags and they are searchable

guillep2k
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Post by guillep2k » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:57 am

:D That explains why none of the anime I've checked had any tags set. I couldn't find where to search by tags. I tried tag:xxxx and tags:xxxx in the full text search (though I wondered what happens if a tag had multiple words on it), and since the wiki says "Only half implemented. You can add tags to an anime, but not search for tags yet." I thought that was the case (although I know the wiki is sometimes outdated).

Guille

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Post by Der Idiot » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:09 pm


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