editing rw without losing the rating|minor/major edits[DONE]

Post by **exp** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:47 pm

the checkbox is now implemented.

BYe!
EXP

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:31 am

I found another thing which should get a bit of attention:

After scrolling through a few reviews, I noticed that some good reviews are rated badly. Probably because some people didn`t like the review(er) since (s)he wrote a review to (slightly) discourage or just a because it contains criticism about that series.
An example of those would be my Berserk-review or Ninja scroll tv review. I`m not too fond of that series and I show that, but I have the feeling that people rate them badly because of that. Of course it`s not only with my or this anime, I`ve seen a few others as well, which were good reviews but were criticising the anime (can`t recall them now though).
Any suggestions how this can be solved?

PS: How the hell is it possible that I have a rating of 2 with 5 votes, while themug has a rating of 1.99 with 5 votes? o_O

PPS: I noticed that, even when you`re just doing minor changes which don`t reset the ratings, you still end up in the 'latest review'-list. Perhaps you should link those two so 'minor changes' don`t end up in the 'latest reviews'-list ?

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:22 am

Gambit wrote:After scrolling through a few reviews, I noticed that some good reviews are rated badly. [...]
Any suggestions how this can be solved?

With a good cup of tea

Such ratings had to (and will continue) to happen... they just have to be "overrated" by others who didn't yet start to rate reviews.

Still, there are two possible changes I would like to discuss:
- More possible ratings than just Yes/No? Maybe +10, +5, 0, -5, -10 (& according names)?
- Hide the vote-results until they reach a minimum amount (5 for example, SR-like) to not over-influence the people whose ratings have the greatest "visible impact"

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:38 am

Gambit wrote:I found another thing which should get a bit of attention:

After scrolling through a few reviews, I noticed that some good reviews are rated badly. Probably because some people didn`t like the review(er) since (s)he wrote a review to (slightly) discourage or just a because it contains criticism about that series.
An example of those would be my Berserk-review or Ninja scroll tv review. I`m not too fond of that series and I show that, but I have the feeling that people rate them badly because of that. Of course it`s not only with my or this anime, I`ve seen a few others as well, which were good reviews but were criticising the anime (can`t recall them now though).
Any suggestions how this can be solved?

Using the old system. I've removed the few reviews I did because I was expecting this. The review system is now unusable, at least for me.

Post by **exp** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:49 pm

DonGato wrote:Using the old system. I've removed the few reviews I did because I was expecting this. The review system is now unusable, at least for me.

hm, i don't see your point, why would the "new system" (guess you're talking about the rating here) make reviews unusable?

BYe!
EXP

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:08 pm

DonGato wrote:Using the old system. I've removed the few reviews I did because I was expecting this. The review system is now unusable, at least for me.

You mean the way how AnimeNfo uses the review-option? You think a review-section works best when people post 2 lines of text with all 10s so all 'good' reviews get to the 5th page and are never to be seen again?

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:32 pm

I mean the review voting system (not the 500char restriction).

- It's easy to add a review and vote yourself to go up.
- It's easy to vote against other reviewers you don't like.
- It's hard to have people voting for the content and not their likening for the anime.

In the way to perfection you ended with imperfection.

But it's simply my point of view... not that it matters. Anyway each day that passes I'm felling more distanced to this community. I've stated I don't like closed/elite communities and this one is becoming just that.

/me switching to lurking mode since now.

wahaha · Post by **wahaha** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:24 pm

DonGato wrote:Anyway each day that passes I'm felling more distanced to this community. I've stated I don't like closed/elite communities and this one is becoming just that.

This is an important matter, though. If you talk about anidb, please name what you dislike - repeat it, if neccessary! If it's about AR, that should rather be discussed there, but still be named.

About the features related to reviews:
I can understand that ideas like "review mods" or "approvied reviewers" are pointing to a less-open way, but I can't yet see how the review-rating by itself will cause a bad development. That review-rating-system can surely fail, but I think one can still think about removing it then.

DonGato wrote:/me switching to lurking mode since now.

If you believe the current development to be already wrong, it won't become better if you now stop critisizing it!

Post by **PetriW** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:45 pm

Actually, it's pretty nice with not having approved reviewers. Like, even if Gambits votes yes I can get a no vote from theMug for example, both honest votes.

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:02 pm

DonGato wrote:I mean the review voting system (not the 500char restriction).
- It's easy to add a review and vote yourself to go up.
- It's easy to vote against other reviewers you don't like.
- It's hard to have people voting for the content and not their likening for the anime.
In the way to perfection you ended with imperfection.

Shit happens

But isn`t that why we`re here to discuss this kind of stuff in order to make it better than it was?

And for your points:

1) If you want your review to be up, you can always reg a few more names and start voting ... which surely won`t work whenever there are 30 votes for each review. And who wants to register 20 times to get his votes up anyway? I don`t see any problem with that when it`s running for a little while.

2 & 3) Of course it`s easy to vote 'against' people. But you should believe that other people will always acknowledge that it`s a good review, so it`ll be rated well in the end.
What my point was, is that people vote 'no' for a good review whenever they don`t like the criticism even though those critics are correct. And to be honest, I don`t know how to do that in a good way except restricting it more. So that`s why I started asking for suggestions, since I want to avoid that. I`m not that much of a guy who wants to restrict everything

I just want to avoid it to become anidb a second animenfo and I didn`t think that just putting a limit up would keep the reviews in a good order.

DonGato wrote:But it's simply my point of view... not that it matters. Anyway each day that passes I'm felling more distanced to this community. I've stated I don't like closed/elite communities and this one is becoming just that.

I guess we see things quite different then, since I like to see us as an open community with a heart. Remember that in an open community there are people who don`t give a shit and just want to leech, or to do things without consequences.

Here, when you talk about reviews and want to keep it open, I believe someone has to keep an eye open to see that there aren`t people who 'cheat' on the rules, like you`ve said before already. That doesn`t mean I don`t want people to write reviews; on the contrary! I love it when people write reviews, preferably better than mine! I just hate it when I see that there are 20 lame reviews and 1 good review - and that that good review is hidden somewhere. That`s why I voted for the rating-system, so people help in keeping the good ones in sight.

Well, it turned out that this system doesn`t work out the way I planned, but that`s why we have this forum, isn`t it? To discuss things and to make things better. Just like you, I don`t like an 'elite-system', but you have to agree that you can`t just let everyone do whatever they want, can you? Sometimes you have to assign someone to make people do it the right way, or to give an example. Think about people writing FAQs, moderators and so on ... you do understand that those people are necessary, don`t you? I don`t see them as elite, I see them as necessary.

Anyway, you said it yourself, It's hard to have people voting for the content and not their likening for the anime. So ... what would you suggest to avoid this?

So ... after all my rambling (must be a lot of bull inbetween too, but I`m too tired to scroll back), please tell me what you think is the perfect way of doing this ... after all, that`s what this forum is for, right?

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:58 pm

wahaha wrote:This is an important matter, though. If you talk about anidb, please name what you dislike - repeat it, if neccessary! If it's about AR, that should rather be discussed there, but still be named.

aniDB is ok as it is now (I like it a lot and hope it stays as it is). I don't like the review system but as stated is my only point of view. We will see how time gives shape to it and if the problems I see now are solved by the mass voting.

wahaha wrote:
DonGato wrote:/me switching to lurking mode since now.
If you believe the current development to be already wrong, it won't become better if you now stop critisizing it!

I'm talking about the community... not this particular thread. Anyway I don't think I can help shaping this better as I believe the system is flawed already (maybe the Yes/No is too limited and we should use a pointing system, but then again... we will end having a voting for the votings of the reviews?).

Gambit wrote:So ... after all my rambling (must be a lot of bull inbetween too, but I`m too tired to scroll back), please tell me what you think is the perfect way of doing this ... after all, that`s what this forum is for, right?

The perfect way, I don't think there could be one. I believe you have to read a lot to have a better knowledge. I don't recommend blindly anime... I always recommend to see some episodes before starting to follow an anime. The same way I would say to read all the reviews to get an idea of an anime.

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:55 pm

Gambit, I have to admit that some of your reviews are really good.

Post by **exp** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:13 pm

DonGato wrote:I'm talking about the community... not this particular thread. Anyway I don't think I can help shaping this better as I believe the system is flawed already (maybe the Yes/No is too limited and we should use a pointing system, but then again... we will end having a voting for the votings of the reviews?).

so are you talking about the community (irc/forum/...) or the review system?

BYe!
EXP

DonGato · Post by **DonGato** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:32 pm

Yes, I know I've been quite confusing there.

My comment about turning to the 'lurking' mode was about the community. The rest was a comment to myself about a way to make better the review voting system, but as I've said I don't think I can help shaping more that feature and Gambit might be right that some time is needed to the system to be good (more votes).

aniDB is perfect IMHO, my only regret is the reviews, but hey! you don't have to hear all my complains.

Good job exp!

Gambit · Post by **Gambit** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:11 am

Okay ... so ... can you give me a few examples of what you mean by 'closed/elite' community then, since you hinted to that and I don`t really see how we are becoming that.