what is an anime and what is not

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permidion
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what is an anime and what is not

Post by permidion » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:14 pm

some admin have recently deleted some serie (Xenosaga I & II, Brave Soul intro, and a few others) because they didnt correspond to their definition of anime.

Now i would like a clear definition of whats anime and whats not so we may know if one can add something to the db or not.

thank you

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:18 pm

Well this is animedb, not hentaicgdb, cartoondb, or any of those ramifications.

I've found this link informative:
http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/athena.mit. ... /Expl.html
Many people might say "Manga are Japanese comics, and Anime is the Japanese version of animation. Anime is usually, but not always, the animated version of popular manga." That's partially true, but it can be misleading. (Note that "anime" in Japan technically means any animated film, and "manga" is any printed cartoon, but people in the rest of the world take them to mean animated films or comics from Japan.)

A third major difference is the unique Japanese manga and anime style, which is distinctive and fairly easy to recognize. This is not to say the style is limiting. Within this broad common stylistic ground, each manga artist's technique is distinct and unique. The stereotype is of characters with huge hair and large eyes, but there are many, many variations, from L. Matsumoto's seemingly unevenly drawn squash-shaped "ugly" protagonists, to the soft-edged figures in Miyazaki's work. And, of course, there is less emphasis on the "superhero" world of the U.S.. In most manga, the men and women aren't necessarily exaggerated extremes of their gender stereotypes, and they wear things other than skin-tight costumes. In fact, manga and anime characters tend to have unique and aesthetic tastes in fashion. (It's also true that many modern U.S. comics have thankfully broken this stereotype.)
Obviously anime isn't just limited to just Japanese companies nowadays. Many countries produce manga, and even anime for them. I think the real question lies in what animation AniDB should encompass. I think the db should allow actual anime or hentai that has asian origins. Robotech for example has Japanese origins because they were licensed from Tatsunoko Studios for international distribution by Harmony Gold USA. The Animatrix should be allowed because it was animated by many well known Japanese artists.

I don't think that these 'anime influenced' new cartoons that are starting up in the US should be added to the db - like Code Lyoko, Totally Spies, etc. Despite their anime influence, they are still cartoon like, and usually lack a continous plot, and are made for half an hour entertainment for kids. An exception to this maybe Teen Titans, since there IS a continous plot, and there is character development.

Xenosaga I & II and Brave Soul that you mentioned were only hentai CGs as far as I know, and aren't even an animated hentai title - merely H games. They shouldn't even been entered into the db.

permidion
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Post by permidion » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:15 pm

well i knew your opinion Ultima, but i want to know the definition from the crew of anidb, not just you

Ultima
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Post by Ultima » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:08 pm

Exp is going to be a away for a bit, so you may have to wait for his response... As for the rest of the AniDB crew, lemme go poke them :)

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Post by DonGato » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:25 pm

I didn't find any Xenosaga or Brave Soul anime/hentai. Can you point us to the home page or to where some info is about number of episodes, synopsis, release dates and so... that way we can allow that to be added.

If it's not anime yet then it won't be allowed.

permidion
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Post by permidion » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:33 pm

there WERE in the db ... until a few hours ago ...

The Xenosaga ep are capture from the game kinematics, but edited so you have the story being told just like any normal anime. there are 13+1 ep for Xenosaga 1 and the same group started doing the same for Xenosaga 2

as for Brave Soule, since some intro/outro of GAMES already existe in the db, i though it was ok that add that intro, which is just like any anime intro, but its for a game (if i didnt have told you it was a game you wouldnt have know...)

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Post by DonGato » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:40 pm

That is not anime. That some people is taking the time to do some captures, translate them and share it doesn't mean it's an anime.

As AMV are not allowed this shouldn't as well.

That they were in the DB isn't justification to keep them. You know how much entries were removed because they weren't considered correct?

And if there is no production company behind for me IT'S NOT ANIME, so I would know that... but I'm glad someone take care for us. I'm tired of seeing the database being polluted with wannabe anime, rumors, bogus files, repeated entries.

permidion
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Post by permidion » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:48 pm

thats why it would be good to have somewhere where EVERYONE can see it a CLEAR description of what can be added and not simply guessing where the limit is in the mod mind...

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Post by Ultima » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:41 am

DonGato wrote:That is not anime. That some people is taking the time to do some captures, translate them and share it doesn't mean it's an anime.

As AMV are not allowed this shouldn't as well.

That they were in the DB isn't justification to keep them. You know how much entries were removed because they weren't considered correct?

And if there is no production company behind for me IT'S NOT ANIME, so I would know that... but I'm glad someone take care for us. I'm tired of seeing the database being polluted with wannabe anime, rumors, bogus files, repeated entries.
Like Dongato said, it's clearly not anime. There is stuff released on the AR forum that are rips of scenes from H games, but they aren't anime persay. I'm not sure how clearer it can be.
permidion wrote:as for Brave Soule, since some intro/outro of GAMES already existe in the db, i though it was ok that add that intro, which is just like any anime intro, but its for a game (if i didnt have told you it was a game you wouldnt have know...)
I already knew Brave Soul was a hentai game. I didn't know what the special was about, but of course I could have asked you :) But like you said permidion, there should be a clear desciption of what should and shouldn't be entered into the db. As a mod, exp has already given us guidelines on what he wants and doesn't want in the db. And I'm pretty sure when he replies, he's going to say not to allow that hentai cg stuff. But what I do know is that he has clearly indicated on many occasions that he doesn't want unofficial AMVs, manga, osts, live action anime or hentai entered into AniDB. If they do happen to be entered they will be deleted.

/me patiently waits for some other mod to comment -_-;;

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Post by nwa » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:50 am

well... I'm the one who theoretcially deleted Xenosaga1&2 and also Transformers Generation - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... hp?id=2597

notice that the animation for season 1 of this anime was done by Toei animation, anything else was dione by the US people, as for other seasons, they were probably animated by the US people as well... also there is an US division of Toei Animation ( like you can see here --> http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... hp?id=2952 )

Transofmers the Movie is also entered into AniDB and it should be deleted as well, but we'll wait for EXP for confirmation... or we can do the same as we did with Generations, delete it and then ask EXP if it was ok to do it :lol:

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Post by analogued » Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:04 am

I think you may have jumped the gun with the removal of Transformers Generation 1. Do japanese people have to be involved in order for it to be considered an anime (there were... you said so yourself)? What about korean or chinese animation... do we delete those as well? What about US animation that was inspired by and produced in the spirit of anime?... Xenosaga and Brave Soul were removed because they didn't have anything to do with animation, not because they were produced in western countries (they weren't).

I think your criteria on this is too strict (I mean, they are good enough for ANN - which also doesn't list US animation - but they are not good enough for AniDB), but that's just my oppinion of course.

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Post by DonGato » Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:31 am

As analogued said I think that is being to strict. If Toei is leading the project I think it's to do anime... not cartoons. As I heard Transformers is anime... so this one should be as well. ANd if ANN list them in his "anime" list it should be for something, ne?

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Post by rowaasr13 » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:14 am

permidion wrote:as for Brave Soule, since some intro/outro of GAMES already existe in the db, i though it was ok that add that intro, which is just like any anime intro, but its for a game (if i didnt have told you it was a game you wouldnt have know...)
Are you talking about files listed as "specials" for anime based on such games or about separate title for intro/outro? First should be allowed, IMHO, and second shouldn't.

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Post by Skywalka » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:17 am

I agree that Transformers is Anime.

Other than that the rould _should_ apply that only Animation of japanese Origin is entered into AniDB with everything from Korea without japanese direct influence beeing debated here before it beeing allowed into the DB.

In the end even "The Simpsons" are drawn in Korea and I don't want them in the DB ;-)

analogued
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Post by analogued » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:24 am

rowaasr13 wrote:Are you talking about files listed as "specials" for anime based on such games or about separate title for intro/outro? First should be allowed, IMHO, and second shouldn't.
Brave Soul and Xenosaga were not listed as specials for another anime... they had their own entries in the database. I agree with you on this issue.
Skywalka wrote:Other than that the rould _should_ apply that only Animation of japanese Origin is entered into AniDB with everything from Korea without japanese direct influence beeing debated here before it beeing allowed into the DB.

In the end even "The Simpsons" are drawn in Korea and I don't want them in the DB ;-)
And if Simpsons was animated in Japan instead of Korea would that make it anime? Maybe in the beginning, anime could be classified as such based only on the origin. But today, in this global enviroment where shows are produced in a country for a different market (like Simpsons), what makes an animation anime is not just the origin anymore.

What if there was a show produced in the US (or another western country) aimed specifficaly at the japanese market (less likely) or at the anime fans in that western country (more likely)? Would that be anime or not? Going just by the origin criteria is like saying... "You're not american because you were not born in America" (NOTE: I'm not american... that was just an example...)

That's just my oppinion, of course.

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