censored

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Postby Der Idiot on Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:36 am

originally this feature was meant for hentai. nowadays you see once in a while editing that gets applied by tv stations which is not on the dvd's and it should get flagged in some way.

examples:

funny images over edited stuff
sunabouzu - lil sunabo heads (the dvd's still have mosaics, but the tv airing has those mosaics censored :lol:)
air gear - crows
gunxsword - donkey heads (only ep 17)

fog/lightning
girls bravo

missing content in tv airing/additional content on dvd
elfen lied - some cruel stuff added OR removed from airing. it's not entirely clear
kgne - missing nipples in tv airing. might be additional content for the dvd's as well
gantz - extreme case which is clearly censored
koikoi seven - more ecchiness or something i got told


point is it's getting harder to label such things and we need a somewhat clear guideline to deal with this and if neccessary some new feature to cover it.

also lots of hentai seem to beep out some words. question to the pervs is that onyl in the censored japanese versions or is that in the r1 dvd's as well.
also do we even consider such things "censored"
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Postby egg on Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:40 am

Something is only censored if it is available also in an uncesored format. Things may get edited out or changed in the process of making the show, this is not necessarily censorship. The anime may have differences from other materials related to it (movie posters, DVD covers, ...), this is not necessarily censorship.

One exception to this I would say is Hentai, where some scenes are obviously pixelized because of Japanese laws, if it is reasonable to expect that these would be unpixelized in an R1 release, then I would still mark these as censored as well. If something is not shown because of tricky "camera" angles, fog, ... then it is not necessarily censored unless there is another version where it is revealed.

Should be a fairly simple rule, and should not be too hard to enforce (the uncensored version could have a screen shot showing the difference).

Also additional content should probably have a different flag than censorship, censorship would be content was cut/modified because of content unsuitable for the original format. Additional content may have been added later or cut because of timing or storyline.
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Postby Rar on Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:07 pm

The kids like misunderstanding 'censorship'. OMG! No cocks! CENSORED!

TV stuff is often fun because there's a question over whether stuff was taken out for tv airing or (just as common) added in for DVD release.

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Postby egg on Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:45 pm

Rar wrote:The kids like misunderstanding 'censorship'. OMG! No cocks! CENSORED!

That is why I stated, there should proof of the scene that is uncensored. If another file has the cock, then then one with no cock is censored. Yes, sometimes they like to do all sorts of symbolism instead of censorship, that was how it is produced and is not censored.

TV stuff is often fun because there's a question over whether stuff was taken out for tv airing or (just as common) added in for DVD release.

There should be another flag called "additional content", this is for a later release that has content NOT in the original. It doesn't matter the reason for the content: something that was cut earlier, or something that was added later.
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Postby Amour on Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:49 pm

egg wrote:Something is only censored if it is available also in an uncesored format.

Disagree completely! You mean that almost nothing in Japan is censored, because it is not available as uncensored?

Censorship is two things, not only one:
1) when something with additional material is available, the full-content one is uncensored and the other is censored.
2) when a technical way of editing is used to hide or modify the video or the sound, this is called censored as well. This apply to mosaics, little stars, *bips*, ... no need for the availability of an uncensored version.

There should be another flag called "additional content"

Or could be a flag “missing content”. But censored/uncensored is OK in my opinion.
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Postby fahrenheit on Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:34 am

Amour wrote:
egg wrote:Something is only censored if it is available also in an uncesored format.

Disagree completely! You mean that almost nothing in Japan is censored, because it is not available as uncensored?

Censorship is two things, not only one:
1) when something with additional material is available, the full-content one is uncensored and the other is censored.
2) when a technical way of editing is used to hide or modify the video or the sound, this is called censored as well. This apply to mosaics, little stars, *bips*, ... no need for the availability of an uncensored version.

There should be another flag called "additional content"

Or could be a flag “missing content”. But censored/uncensored is OK in my opinion.


Sometimes #2 is used intentionaly, i.e.: the censor is a integral part of the show.
As for #1, it's not because of the dvd version having more content that the tv release is censored and the dvd one uncensored.

Censored/uncensored should only be applied as it's currently being used, in case of doubt, no flag is used, and if later on another version is relased with uncensored content, nudity exposed, etc, the uncensored flag is applied. Only in these conditions.
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Postby AnimeOtaku on Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:02 am

to censorship in animes...as an example Naruto Ep 1 was released a week ago in Germany...here are some cutting things they made...(site in German):
http://www.animedigital.de/index.htm?locus=http://www.animedigital.de/Projekte/Naruto/1/folge1.php

By the "rollover pictures" you can see what they made if you go over it with the mouse.
Last edited by AnimeOtaku on Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby egg on Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:25 am

Amour wrote:
egg wrote:Something is only censored if it is available also in an uncesored format.

Disagree completely! You mean that almost nothing in Japan is censored, because it is not available as uncensored?
Correct. Whatever was released is considered to be the way it was meant to be unless there is direct proof that it was censored. Editing a show before release that ends up cutting content may happen for a variety of reasons, that doesn't mean that it is censorship. Until it is released, there is nothing to gauge it by, so you assume that it is the way it was meant to be. I guess you could have someone working on the project come out and say they cut stuff because of ..., but then you should have a news article or something as support for marking it as censored. If you were a mod, what rule would you use to determine if something is censored?

Amour wrote:Censorship is two things, not only one:
1) when something with additional material is available, the full-content one is uncensored and the other is censored.
Not necessarily, additional content could have been added later, this does not mean the original was cut. I would argue that there should be two fields, one for censorship and one for new content for later releases.

Amour wrote:2) when a technical way of editing is used to hide or modify the video or the sound, this is called censored as well. This apply to mosaics, little stars, *bips*, ... no need for the availability of an uncensored version.
These are sometimes used intentionally and are meant to be displayed. I would say that something that is clearly Hentai and the pubic areas are clearly pixelized (not just hidden with fancy camera angles or replaced by symbolism), then that could be marked as censored. It is reasonable to assume that an R1 release would be uncensored. In any other case it should be left with no flag set until there is some proof that it is censored.

Also I tried to state the rule so that it would be easily enforcable by the mods. If someone has proof of censorship, then that makes it easy to moderate the flag. If they cannot provide proof, then the flag should not be set.

Amour wrote:
There should be another flag called "additional content"

Or could be a flag “missing content”. But censored/uncensored is OK in my opinion.
If it is too hard to determine, then I would settle for a single flag. Something could be added to fill a gap in the story line, it wasn't in the original to cut, they decided it would help so they added it... That does not make the original censored, it is just the new release has additional content. Also, something can be censored AND have additional content (to fill in the gaps), look at animes that have been brought to the US for TV, there are tons of examples, going from complete mangling to minor edits.
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Postby Antono on Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:48 pm

I can't agree more with Egg.

Two fields:
A CENSORED/UNCENSORED field for Hentai and an "original/additional content" (we can decide about the name later) field for content which is added to any product in later editions.
(Hentai can also get an "additional content" flag if an edition appears with extra scenes).

I also find the suggestion of using the CENSORED/UNCENSORED field for labeling content that was cut/modified despite the original intentions of the creators, quite reasonable. The proposed rule of having an "uncensored" edition to compare to or having inside info that censorship was at work is also quite sensible.

I have a question though: Lets suppose we see a later edition of an anime which has some "extra" gore or nudity scenes? How can we decide whether this was the original version the creators had in mind (which means we have to mark this edition UNCENSORED and the previous one CENSORED) or they just decided it would be nice to have some gore/nudity scenes a posteriori (in which case this edition is marked "additional content" and the previous one "original"). We need inside info about every new edition. Is that feasible? If it is, this rule OK with me: simple and reasonable.

Also, what do we do about editions that have even more additional content than previous "additional content" editions. Should we simply mark them as "additional content" or should we have grades, e.g. additional content -> additional content + -> additional content ++ and so on?
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Postby sjabbie on Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:07 am

Amour wrote:Censorship is two things, not only one:
1) when something with additional material is available, the full-content one is uncensored and the other is censored.


That would mean that Lord of the Rings was also censored :wink:.
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Postby egg on Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:55 pm

Antono wrote:I have a question though: Lets suppose we see a later edition of an anime which has some "extra" gore or nudity scenes? How can we decide whether this was the original version the creators had in mind (which means we have to mark this edition UNCENSORED and the previous one CENSORED) or they just decided it would be nice to have some gore/nudity scenes a posteriori (in which case this edition is marked "additional content" and the previous one "original"). We need inside info about every new edition. Is that feasible? If it is, this rule OK with me: simple and reasonable.
Probably the easiest way is to make censorship for the first release, just if a particular scene is different in a later release, same scene, but something was put into the other released (unpizelized or like the nipples in kgne). Censorship for a later release is if anything was cut out of the initial release. Anything added after the first release would be additional content. This is the only way it is enforcable by the moderators, anything else is a grey area. That way censorship (no matter how silly) and additional content could be proven with screen shots and video clips.

In extreme cases where there is inside information about the content added and it was cut originally because of censorship, then the original release can be marked as censored, but that would be at the discretion of the moderator.

Antono wrote:Also, what do we do about editions that have even more additional content than previous "additional content" editions. Should we simply mark them as "additional content" or should we have grades, e.g. additional content -> additional content + -> additional content ++ and so on?
This could be handled with file comments. Hopefully it doesn't happen that often, but producers are stupid.

OK, let me restate the rules.
When a file is added to AniDB, it is not censored or uncensored, unless there is proof based on the rules below.
If it is the original release of that episode, then it is not censored unless a later version is released that clearly shows a difference in the same scene, then it can be marked as censored.

Possible exception to this rule, something that is obviously hentai, and has pixelation over pubic areas, it may be considered censored. (Note other features like camera angles, lighting, symbolism, invisible pubic areas, ... do not count as censorship, unless there is also an uncensored version.

The original release can be considered censored and a new release considered uncensored if within the same scene there are obvious differences where something is in the new scene that was hidden or not there in the original. For instance nipples in knge and other things that were edited out.

Conversely, if anything that was in the original and was edited out of a subsequent release, the original is uncensored and the new one is censored.

If anything is added to a later release that was not in the original (new footage), then that is additional content in the newer release. Based on evidence, a moderator can determine that additional footage really should be considered as censorship of the original (Gantz), but it is up to the moderator.

If there are many different versions of the same episode, then apply the rules as best as possible and make notes in the file comments on the exceptions.
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Postby Midair on Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:05 pm

AnimeOtaku wrote:to censorship in animes...as an example Naruto Ep 1 was released a week ago in Germany...here are some cutting things they made...(site in German):
http://www.animedigital.de/index.htm?locus=http://www.animedigital.de/Projekte/Naruto/1/folge1.php

holy cow, i wasn't aware it's that bad (and that ridiculous)

to the ot:
i think this picky stance about every kind of editing being a form of censorship is far off...
cenosring has always been about two things, plain and simple: violence and sex...it's quite easy to determine if the editing was for creative reasons
guess in general we have to stay more on our toes, as it is sliding into quite manipulative 'sub'-levels
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Postby Neko-Musume on Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:07 am

Midair wrote:cenosring has always been about two things, plain and simple: violence and sex


I guess that the people that want to censor "nigger" out of Huck Finn think that the word is too violent and sexy.
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Postby egg on Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:06 am

Neko-Musume wrote:
Midair wrote:cenosring has always been about two things, plain and simple: violence and sex


I guess that the people that want to censor "nigger" out of Huck Finn think that the word is too violent and sexy.
Another example (along the same lines) that was done in anime, is in Pokemon. There is a Pokemon Jynx that resembled some stereotypes of black people (I think it was purple and had big lips). After it first aired in the US there was some controversy. Later episodes with that Pokemon that were released in the US have been cut or had modifications to that character to try to avoid this issue.

It is true that not all editing is censorship, but after the initial release, anything done after that is a change that costs them money. They must be making decisions about every single change, and they wouldn't make them unless they thought there was a good reason the original would not be good for their target audience. So, if making a decision to change something from its original form so that it is deemed suitable is not censorship, then I don't know what is.

BTW, censorship - deleting parts of publications or correspondence or theatrical performances. So, according to that, anything that is deleted is censorship.
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Postby Midair on Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:54 pm

oO that wasn't the point i was trying to make
of course i consider that censor too :?
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