[DISCUSS] Feature: Anime Comments

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Postby Cyrano423 on Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:00 pm

exp wrote: From the discussion so far, I think it is pretty clear that the requirements for a review are on an entirely different level. In fact, in most cases reviews and comments are probably written by different user groups. Most people who write comments will never write a review.

One of the benefits of such a comment system could be that it might keep the review section cleaner. As such, the farther it is away from the review pages the better.

So i would maybe give a link to the comment section with the error message you get when you try to submit a review which is below the minimum character count. And maybe a link to the review section if you try to submit an insanely large comment.


lol, you made sense ... and I like the issues you posed.

Which bring one of the things I was saying before into perspective on the standard @ requirements. So it's safe to say that there are requirements and an unofficial standard. Though because of that ... the requirements might in fact be the reason why there are two different groups. Those who comment, and those who review. Since for a review to be a review it must meet certain requirements, which the writer might not feel they do.

So they don't submit something all together. Yet, someone else might find what they say to be invalueable.

Aside from that, I like the link idea. However, then it becomes "comment rejected, copy and paste it to a review form, then submit again" or the other way around. Maybe instead of a link, there's the automatic handling of that. For example, instead of a link which they then have to paste the content ... if a Comment and it's too long the 1-10 ratings display (JavaScript or it can be server-side based as the server spits back the full form instead of the link). If the review is too short, then the 1-10 ratings are hidden and it goes into comment mode. The locations comment versus review are kept separate, it's just the form which adapts depending on the situation.

I'm just trying to think of ways it can be easier than copy and pasting and trying to submit again.

Though what about private comments?
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Postby Gambit on Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:43 am

exp wrote:For me, one of the main points against this would be that it kinda declares comments as being something like short reviews.

Well, that`s not what I meant, actually (although DonGato seems to make it sound like I meant that). The comments are for me like 'short remarks'. That can be a 'shout' (zomg!! cool series!!!111), but like DonGato says, also an 'infocomment' (this series actually won an award for best Korean animation all time), 'personal comment' (I liked this because of the story.) or even 'recommendations' (if you liked x then you will like this too). Of course, most (not all) of what I just named are usually already integrated in regular reviews, so it would also have a duty for people who want to convey something without writing an in-depth review.
It would probably also serve for people who write short reviews which are not good enough for regular reviews. So yeah, it has its use for lots of things which aren`t suited for the regular reviews.

exp wrote:In fact, in most cases reviews and comments are probably written by different user groups. Most people who write comments will never write a review. And those few users who actually do write reviews can savely be considered as being mostly advanced users.

I agree with you there. But then again, currently there are also a bunch of potential comment-users who are currently writing reviews, who would be better off writing a comment instead.

exp wrote:One of the benefits of such a comment system could be that it might keep the review section cleaner. As such, the farther it is away from the review pages the better. If some tard normally doesn't open the review page but is happily spamming away in the comments page, then hey, maybe he never gets to write crappy reviews bc he simply ignores that page :P
On the other hand, when he is in the same interface already... "hey, i just need a couple more lines and i can make this a review and then i will be able to b00st th3 sc0re if this uber l33t series..."

What about having it somewhere near the group-votes, or near the description? Because there is not that much space for not putting it near the reviews-link.
As for the extra lines, I don`t think you should add a short character limit. Still - 500 characters (minimum for reviews) doesn`t seem likely for a comment if you have some useful info. 500 characters does defeat the purpose of a comment, while it may probably be already a not-so-bad review already. A message like 'This comment is over 500 characters long and seems more suited like a gradable review, would you like to convert it to a review?' would be appropriate there. Then the user still has the option to say 'no'.

Cyrano423 wrote:It would also solve the problem of people complaining about the votes they get on their reviews. If they don't want their review to be voted on, then they can make it "personal" but doing so means it won't get the priority of reviews people voted on.

So you mean that reviewers who don`t want to get criticized should make their review in the comment/private section? I wonder if that`s useful ...

Cyrano423 wrote:
Gambit wrote: Woah, woah, woah. Those are guidelines, my friend. They do not need to be followed, but it is always appreciated if there are several aspects named.

Guidelines eventually become a standard. Since when voting or rating people start thinking, "was this covered? was that?" Which in turn indirectly creates a requirement. Requirements that they are basing upon the guidelines. Then as people attempt to follow the guidelines it pushes it further into a site standard or unofficial rule. The more people complain about low votes or ratings, the more others might try to write in a manner to get better ratings. While this is inherently good ... because it increases quality. However, the guidelines become the standard eventually alienating those who do differently.

Well, you do have a point there ... although I also pointed out several examples of people who don`t use the format suggested and yet still convey good reviews.

Cyrano423 wrote:gradeable == general review
non-gradable == personal review

though there should also be a private option, where people might only want their friends to see it.

I don`t think that, if you implement comments, that you still need to differentiate between public and private.
I also don`t think that when implementing comments, that you should have non-gradable reviews either.

Cyrano423 wrote:Additionally the latter is easier for quality control. If an admin thinks a review is too personal, they can demote it to an un-rated review. That demotion won't cause much of a stir, because the ways people access the reviews would remain the same.

Actually, I don`t think there are much people who`d want to go through such reviews/comments and 'demote' them. So it`s up to the user where he puts it and especially with reviews, I don`t think anyone else but the initial poster should demote anything. It would only cause friction, because the poster considers it good, the 'admin' as bad and the poster would blame the admin for being subjective. So no, you shouldn`t put people in charge to demote such things, imho.
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Postby Cyrano423 on Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:31 am

Gambit wrote: Actually, I don`t think there are much people who`d want to go through such reviews/comments and 'demote' them. So it`s up to the user where he puts it and especially with reviews, I don`t think anyone else but the initial poster should demote anything. It would only cause friction, because the poster considers it good, the 'admin' as bad and the poster would blame the admin for being subjective. So no, you shouldn`t put people in charge to demote such things, imho.


Cool ... I definitely feel you on that, and agree. Thanks for your thoughts on this, I appreciate it and the discourse. Though since pelican brought to my attention that my posts are annoying ... I'll leave it alone. Although I might desire to help, if I'm being annoying then that's not helping at all, lol. Besides, yall already have everything under control. Though thanks again (also Exp & Don).
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Postby Gambit on Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:32 am

Since I`m not able to see pelican`s concerns here, and I do think that the comment-idea has some merits, I think it wouldn`t hurt to keep this idea in mind. EXP already showed an interest in it as well.

I think that it would be a waste to let this go until we get to an agreement.

Cyrano423 wrote:Though I leaned to the second idea because of how it's more user friendly. It would also solve the problem of people complaining about the votes they get on their reviews. If they don't want their review to be voted on, then they can make it "personal" but doing so means it won't get the priority of reviews people voted on.

I have the feeling that people who want to inform others (like dooly with his dooly-review about it being the #1 korean animation or the info about that 4 eps King of Fighter OVA being a promo) don`t really want to elaborate about that in a review-form where it can be rated. Usually those get low ratings too, because they are no reviews by itself - which results in them hanging at the bottom and never getting seen by the people who read reviews.
Making those comments would be more appropriate, but then again, only if those are not spammed by random remarks, I think. Perhaps for those we should rather encourage those to make a creq for description while people can still give personal opinions in the 'comments' section.
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Postby Cyrano423 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:33 am

Gambit wrote: I think that it would be a waste to let this go until we get to an agreement.

Perhaps for those we should rather encourage those to make a creq for description while people can still give personal opinions in the 'comments' section.

interesting@creq for description.

In the end we're all in agreeement that comments should be used. Though because I elaborated on and focused on the review modes ... it might've seemed like I wasn't. I was actually just looking for reasons why such an idea shouldn't be used (when Exp made his argument about the separation my thinking then shifted to "cool then separation as comments is justified, though how can that rejection / denial of submission be made easier"). As far as the comments morphing into reviews by JS on the form ... that I retract because I realize, that the exchange for making it easier one also makes it easier for people to do stupid shit, lol.

As far as the private comments goes. Maybe instead of using the private option, and instead of reference hyperlinks to jump ahead to that specific comment. The userid can be passed in the url, and will display that user's comment at the top of the anime comment page ... so that the reader (if they came from the person's mylist) would see their's first as it is more relevant, but at the same time can continue reading seeing other's comments. Versus using the reference hyperlink, which functions differently in various browsers (many browsers don't even scroll to the associated link if the link is passed as the page is loaded, and that link id doesn't exist yet because of the use of long tables, or maybe the page being generally lengthy. Which would leave some people scrolling through trying to find said person's comment).


Which leaves:

- comment entry link & count on the anime page
-- (which I think should go underneath the reviews)
- a 'Commented' column on the MyVotes page that link contains the userid
-- (maybe just an icon, without a heading for said column, directly to the left of the vote column, making it appear as if it was right-aligned but in the same column as the anime title)
- A link to comment on an anime, within their mylist for easy access
-- (though personally I'd be fine without the easy access link, and without it won't add a bunch of links to the mylist)

Thoughts?

.
Last edited by Cyrano423 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DonGato on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:43 am

I do think that comments should be related to your MyList or MyVotes, not to the anime page and not shown to everyone. At least I don't want that. So:

- Not even related/near reviews.
- Not put in a main place.
- Use the current permissions system.
- Relate it to MyVotes or MyList (you can have anime you don't have in your list but you voted and viceversa, how to check/handle that?).
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Postby Cyrano423 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:52 am

DonGato wrote:I do think that comments should be related to your MyList or MyVotes, not to the anime page and not shown to everyone. At least I don't want that. So:

- Not even related/near reviews.
- Not put in a main place.
- Use the current permissions system.
- Relate it to MyVotes or MyList (you can have anime you don't have in your list but you voted and viceversa, how to check/handle that?).

To handle that it would have to be displayed in both locations (on the myvotes page, and in the mylist) so the "or" isn't really optional. Since you're absolutely right about that. Though about the location ... on the profile, provide a "hide comments on anime page" option. Your addition of the permission system takes care of the "not put in a main place" issue. If the person deems in their settings that their comments can be publicly viewed, then it'll display on the comments page along with others that have the same setting. If not, then when the userid is passed through the link from let's say the MyVotes page ... instead of merely displaying that person's comment first, it only displays that person's comment period.

For that an additional "don't group anime comments together" option might be needed.

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Postby Gambit on Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:17 pm

Cyrano423 wrote:As far as the private comments goes. Maybe instead of using the private option, and instead of reference hyperlinks to jump ahead to that specific comment. The userid can be passed in the url, and will display that user's comment at the top of the anime comment page ... so that the reader (if they came from the person's mylist) would see their's first as it is more relevant, but at the same time can continue reading seeing other's comments. Versus using the reference hyperlink, which functions differently in various browsers (many browsers don't even scroll to the associated link if the link is passed as the page is loaded, and that link id doesn't exist yet because of the use of long tables, or maybe the page being generally lengthy. Which would leave some people scrolling through trying to find said person's comment).

I don`t think this would be useful, rather annoying.

Your summarized thoughts sounded all pretty much okay to me though.

@DonGato - seeing your last comment, how about using the TempVotes for those? Of course you would need to enforce setting a tempvote for it then. And afaik tempvotes don`t influence much so far.

Reminds me that we can dedicate a page to it as well, like MyVotes, MyReviews we can also have a MyComments.
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Postby DonGato on Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:31 pm

Well, the main issue is that I thought of using it as something different than is now discussed. I thought about a personal comments on a series that might be or not shared with the people you share MyList with. I don't want a mini-review nor another group-comments like feature to have in the main page (don't care about setting to disable or not, just don't want a feature like this that will be abused in no time). So no, I don't like the idea as it is presented now, it has another purpose than the one I envisioned first.

I didn't want a list of comments, in the other hand I wanted a MyList/MyVotes with a possibility to see the comments the user posted in case he wants to share them.
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Postby Cyrano423 on Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:00 pm

DonGato wrote: I didn't want a list of comments, in the other hand I wanted a MyList/MyVotes with a possibility to see the comments the user posted in case he wants to share them.


Removal of it from the anime page ... a link to the comments is placed on the graphed rating page (only people with the appropriate permissions displayed). The link also in the MyVotes, MyList. On the MyReviews page: a link on the top to Comments (or as Gambit said a entirely separate MyComments page).

Any link from those pages will display the person's solitary comment. However, at the top of the displayed comment would be the link to see other's comments (for easy access).

Works?

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