time delay before new users can vote

Forum for discussing AniDB rules & standards. No small talk!

Moderator: AniDB

Postby lavar on Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:38 am

vote spaming.

It happens time to time...( Anime-Supreme and Anime-HQ being the lastest mass voters )

Maybe a user can't vote for the first week after they reg.
Works to keep (some) spam down on doom9.

i'd bet over the last few days.. AS has a bunch of 10 votes and those accounts have a 1 vote for all the other groups on the list.

maybe shut down account that have only logged in X amount of times over Y period of time.
Ie, logged in only once and then never again.
like, if a new account doesnt' get another visit in the first month.. drop?


(it would also be nice to drop group voting all together.. but that is a side issue)
lavar
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:25 am

Postby suppy on Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:57 am

when the wiki gets back up, you could search it for "userlevels" ... if that gets implemented, it would solve this problem. (if the wiki was up, I'd give you a directlink, but alas, it is down for maintenance).

also, vote-pruning is done by the mods continuously from what I can tell... not sure if that goes for group-votes as well though.

Edit: Wiki is now up, so here is the link: http://wiki.anidb.info/w/Tracker:userlevel
suppy
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:37 am
Location: A House of the Azath

Postby nwa on Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:23 pm

lavar wrote:(it would also be nice to drop group voting all together.. but that is a side issue)


that will happen some day... and the group vote is calculated from group-per-anime votes
User avatar
nwa
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:51 am

Postby DonGato on Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:43 pm

Weren't KAA one of the first to abuse that feature?

http://www.anidb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13808#13808

I can't find the post in KAA forum nor my account so they might've been trashed.
User avatar
DonGato
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!

Postby Rar on Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:03 pm

Indeed, KAA are huge culprits, but hypocrisy has always been a strength of lavar's.

Rar
User avatar
Rar
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: UK

Postby lavar on Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:23 pm

i don't know about the first :)
but i think the one comment about it was back at the end of 2003 or start of 2004 and was soon removed. We were still way under 100 for most of that time and ended up being about 10 votes - kaa moved up in the ranking after it started posting to AR.

your linked post came WAY after that (here on Anidb).
I think the voting for groups is just grounds for abuse :)
kaa, for how ever one feels about the quality. is pretty much the only group that offically uses ed2k.. thus will always get more votes then everyone else.. because this is a ed2k site.

I could have posted this so u didn't know who the "suggestion" came from - this has nothing to do with KAA. Everyone at this stage knows of kaa and likes it or not.. but seeing groups that hate ed2k.. and from anibd's own database almost no one has files from that group.. then they jump into the top 10... is just silly.

This is from the main page of AS:
Subject :: Help Us By Voting For Us On The Next Site.
Date :: Wednesday, 18 January 2006 | 14:54
Posted by :: TRaSH

please help us getting higher in the stats.
goto http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... up&gid=670
register or login
then vote for us there we need at least 150 votes to get in the stats.

also vote for our anime's we've done and you liked

keep in mind more users also could mean more donations because people would recognize us.
and more donations could mean add more faster bots more dedicated seeders and even more releases in our channel and bittorrent

thnx


most ppl are to lazy to have to wait a week before they can start voting... and would cut down on some pointless crap :)
like the fma movie voting :) i don't think i've ever seen so many votes so low for a DVDrip :) or so many votes..
hell.. when ahq had just put thier BT up.. and 5 ppl were on it.. they already had like 10 votes :)
same for the kaa.. it wasn't even OUT! and it already had votes
lavar
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:25 am

Postby lavar on Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:34 pm

Rar wrote:Indeed, KAA are huge culprits, but hypocrisy has always been a strength of lavar's.

Rar


show me a link or post or something that shows kaa going for votes?

There was one - years ago.. in our forum.. deep in a thread and we qucikly removed it.

what hypocrisy? show we a place were I said ppl go out and pimp votes.
I can get a bunch of AR/Anidb admins that have hear from me that group voting stucks and would be best removed.

This has nothing to do with kaa...

but.. nice to see rar.. your trolling is missed on our AR threads :P
lavar
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:25 am

Postby DonGato on Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:38 pm

As I said, there was a thread with tenths of pages where we (people associated with AniDB) had some heated discussions with KAA forum members about such nasty tactics of manipulating the votes.

Where it went such thread, don't know (it was closed at some point in time)... my account isn't there either and maybe not the one from Tuel or Gambit who answered there as well. Even nwa answered there. :P

Anyway, this is anecdotal, but shows they are not the first and won't be the last ones manipulating votes. And BTW, there is already a tracker entry with some suggestions about voting. I'm lazy to look it for you. :lol:

EDIT: and yes, rar is a troll... but we have to live with it.
User avatar
DonGato
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!

Postby Rar on Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:06 pm

If speakin' truth to tards is trollin' then sure, I'm guilty. Fact is it's the head tard of the most spam-voted group (currently 'number one' no less) - COMPLAINING about other groups encouraging users doing the same thing! The fucking cheak!

Anyway, in answer to the point, none of the mods care much about votes and ranks by now, most of uz 'd just take that pointless shit off the main page, and probably make the release-for-group vote/comment system less crappy. But, all this depends of exp writing code, and he doesn't like fixing broken things, only making shiny new things.

Rar
User avatar
Rar
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: UK

Postby Der Idiot on Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:50 am

let me throw in some bit as well as i just wiped some votes of a *cough* member of some group. it's easy to guess who it is without me naming the group by name. list list of votes is as followed:

group = duh groupvote
animegroup = groupvote per anime

(reads as: type, ID, number, vote)
Code: Select all
ANIMEGROUP            15623    6    10                             
ANIMEGROUP            14343    6    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            13362    6    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            16111    6    10                        
GROUP                 108      6    10       
ANIMEGROUP            16127    6    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            15221    6    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            16020    6    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            13113    5    10                        
GROUP                 631      5    1        
ANIMEGROUP            13750    5    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            13760    5    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            8209     4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            4913     4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            11584    4    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            3394     4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            1006     4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            115      4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            13813    4    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            392      4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            1417     4    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            11922    4    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            10942    4    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            15624    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            14111    3    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            2604     3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            9255     3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            306      3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            3395     3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            13138    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            4845     3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            15854    3    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            12768    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            249      3    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            12530    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            15222    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            10387    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            15525    3    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            2498     3    10                 
GROUP                 6        2    1   
ANIMEGROUP            3596     2    10                 
ANIMEGROUP            11565    2    1                         
GROUP                 41       2    1   
ANIMEGROUP            305      2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            7262     2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            1361     2    10                        
GROUP                 3046     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            1004     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            230      2    1                         
GROUP                 374      2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            6129     2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            3699     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            3444     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            6773     2    10                        
GROUP                 2182     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            391      2    1                         
GROUP                 670      2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            6802     2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            10921    2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            171      2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            11695    2    10                        
GROUP                 183      2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            2224     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            2225     2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            694      2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            13239    2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            6090     2    1                         
ANIMEGROUP            2252     2    10                        
ANIMEGROUP            5569     2    1                         
ANIME                 979      2    10


(thats only a portion of his votes. there were a couple more hundred fake votes, but i'm too lazy to list them)


actually screw that "not naming the tard and group" bit :twisted:

spot the obvious sticking out

Code: Select all
GROUP 108 6 10   


Code: Select all
[ 03:25:56 ]   [ @DerIdiot ] !group 108
[ 03:25:57 ]   [ @Chii[AR] ] GROUP: Anime HQ [AHQ] (108), irc: #animehq@irc.rizon.net, rating: 8.08 (135 votes), db: 81 animes/3015 files, url: http://www.anime-hq.org, http://anidb.info/g108


now one might expect your random tardy fanboy user to make that vote, but oh no not this time. the creator and voter for those is no one else than "dustmaker" a member of AHQ. yeah go tard :roll:

let me point out at this point the delete system is rather dumbed down and wipes EVERY vote. so even his regular votes went to hell, but do i care? not really. if you do bad things you need to get a kick in the nuts as simple as that. this is also meant to everyone else as a warning. just because we haven't wiped your fakeaccoutn yet doesn't mean we won't at some point. we got our ways to find them and be sure we will!
Der Idiot
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:19 am

Postby nwa on Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:34 am

anyway, all these issues are well known for us mods and there have been like.. multiple solutions, but nothing myw00d-certain yet... plus it'd take EXP 'some' time to change the system, for the time being, ignore the group votes, I'd hate to say that also ignore the group-per-anime votes, but we're trying to make those work, I mean I end up on the main page of anidb several times a day and I never even look at the Group Stats nor Anime Stats
User avatar
nwa
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:51 am

Postby Gambit on Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:43 am

lavar wrote:Maybe a user can't vote for the first week after they reg.
Works to keep (some) spam down on doom9.

I`m not against that as a whole since I do see some advantages of it. It shouldn`t stop people from using the MyList though - and after that week they might get an e-mail/PM then to tell them they can vote.

Yet, as KAA-member you shouldn`t criticize other groups - iirc your group was the one which originally came with the idea of using the fanbase to do this AniDB-vote-boosting ;) I was one of the people who warned them about the entire group being removed from voting due to abuse and was criticized by about the entire KAA community. Must be a year or two, three ago since back then I was still an active AniDB moderator.
User avatar
Gambit
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:21 am

Postby AnimeOtaku on Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:55 am

I think that only someone can vote (permamently) who has the anime completed in mylist and completed watched it
AnimeOtaku
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:54 am
Location: Germany

Postby egg on Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:12 pm

It would be nice if exp wiped the group votes, and replaced them with the animegroup composite scores. Another reason for this is since it requires 10 votes to display the value, frequently it makes it difficult to find a score for a particular group. Frequently, none of the groups has enough votes to display a value, and if you look at the group page that also does not have enough votes. If there was a composite score on the group page from each of the anime that group had subbed, then there may be enough votes to display on the group page...

My father has a saying, "Locks only keep honest people honest." This means that most people who go up to a locked door will leave it. But if someone is determined to break in, then they will find a way. The lock just makes them do more work to get there.

Similarly, adding userlevels will inconvenience some people (for some of my friends I have created a user and put in their votes in the same day so that they could start using the hint), but for the most part will make it annoying for people creating accounts just for voting. That will not stop users from abusing the system, it will just make it more work for them to do so.
egg
 
Posts: 769
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:17 am

Postby DonGato on Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:53 pm

But making things hard is a principle of security as you can't obtain 100% security on IT, so you end making it hard to break as much as you can. :P

Well, you can end some of this madness by simply removing the stats in the main page.
rar, can't you do that with CSS now so exp doesn't need to work? :D
User avatar
DonGato
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: The Pampas, The land of the Gaucho!


Return to AniDB Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron