time delay before new users can vote

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lavar
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time delay before new users can vote

Post by lavar » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:38 am

vote spaming.

It happens time to time...( Anime-Supreme and Anime-HQ being the lastest mass voters )

Maybe a user can't vote for the first week after they reg.
Works to keep (some) spam down on doom9.

i'd bet over the last few days.. AS has a bunch of 10 votes and those accounts have a 1 vote for all the other groups on the list.

maybe shut down account that have only logged in X amount of times over Y period of time.
Ie, logged in only once and then never again.
like, if a new account doesnt' get another visit in the first month.. drop?


(it would also be nice to drop group voting all together.. but that is a side issue)

suppy
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Post by suppy » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:57 am

when the wiki gets back up, you could search it for "userlevels" ... if that gets implemented, it would solve this problem. (if the wiki was up, I'd give you a directlink, but alas, it is down for maintenance).

also, vote-pruning is done by the mods continuously from what I can tell... not sure if that goes for group-votes as well though.

Edit: Wiki is now up, so here is the link: http://wiki.anidb.info/w/Tracker:userlevel

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:23 pm

lavar wrote:(it would also be nice to drop group voting all together.. but that is a side issue)
that will happen some day... and the group vote is calculated from group-per-anime votes

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:43 pm

Weren't KAA one of the first to abuse that feature?

http://www.anidb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13808#13808

I can't find the post in KAA forum nor my account so they might've been trashed.

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:03 pm

Indeed, KAA are huge culprits, but hypocrisy has always been a strength of lavar's.

Rar

lavar
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Post by lavar » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:23 pm

i don't know about the first :)
but i think the one comment about it was back at the end of 2003 or start of 2004 and was soon removed. We were still way under 100 for most of that time and ended up being about 10 votes - kaa moved up in the ranking after it started posting to AR.

your linked post came WAY after that (here on Anidb).
I think the voting for groups is just grounds for abuse :)
kaa, for how ever one feels about the quality. is pretty much the only group that offically uses ed2k.. thus will always get more votes then everyone else.. because this is a ed2k site.

I could have posted this so u didn't know who the "suggestion" came from - this has nothing to do with KAA. Everyone at this stage knows of kaa and likes it or not.. but seeing groups that hate ed2k.. and from anibd's own database almost no one has files from that group.. then they jump into the top 10... is just silly.

This is from the main page of AS:
Subject :: Help Us By Voting For Us On The Next Site.
Date :: Wednesday, 18 January 2006 | 14:54
Posted by :: TRaSH

please help us getting higher in the stats.
goto http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?s ... up&gid=670
register or login
then vote for us there we need at least 150 votes to get in the stats.

also vote for our anime's we've done and you liked

keep in mind more users also could mean more donations because people would recognize us.
and more donations could mean add more faster bots more dedicated seeders and even more releases in our channel and bittorrent

thnx
most ppl are to lazy to have to wait a week before they can start voting... and would cut down on some pointless crap :)
like the fma movie voting :) i don't think i've ever seen so many votes so low for a DVDrip :) or so many votes..
hell.. when ahq had just put thier BT up.. and 5 ppl were on it.. they already had like 10 votes :)
same for the kaa.. it wasn't even OUT! and it already had votes

lavar
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Post by lavar » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:34 pm

Rar wrote:Indeed, KAA are huge culprits, but hypocrisy has always been a strength of lavar's.

Rar
show me a link or post or something that shows kaa going for votes?

There was one - years ago.. in our forum.. deep in a thread and we qucikly removed it.

what hypocrisy? show we a place were I said ppl go out and pimp votes.
I can get a bunch of AR/Anidb admins that have hear from me that group voting stucks and would be best removed.

This has nothing to do with kaa...

but.. nice to see rar.. your trolling is missed on our AR threads :P

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DonGato
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Post by DonGato » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:38 pm

As I said, there was a thread with tenths of pages where we (people associated with AniDB) had some heated discussions with KAA forum members about such nasty tactics of manipulating the votes.

Where it went such thread, don't know (it was closed at some point in time)... my account isn't there either and maybe not the one from Tuel or Gambit who answered there as well. Even nwa answered there. :P

Anyway, this is anecdotal, but shows they are not the first and won't be the last ones manipulating votes. And BTW, there is already a tracker entry with some suggestions about voting. I'm lazy to look it for you. :lol:

EDIT: and yes, rar is a troll... but we have to live with it.

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Rar
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Post by Rar » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:06 pm

If speakin' truth to tards is trollin' then sure, I'm guilty. Fact is it's the head tard of the most spam-voted group (currently 'number one' no less) - COMPLAINING about other groups encouraging users doing the same thing! The fucking cheak!

Anyway, in answer to the point, none of the mods care much about votes and ranks by now, most of uz 'd just take that pointless shit off the main page, and probably make the release-for-group vote/comment system less crappy. But, all this depends of exp writing code, and he doesn't like fixing broken things, only making shiny new things.

Rar

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Post by Der Idiot » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:50 am

let me throw in some bit as well as i just wiped some votes of a *cough* member of some group. it's easy to guess who it is without me naming the group by name. list list of votes is as followed:

group = duh groupvote
animegroup = groupvote per anime

(reads as: type, ID, number, vote)

Code: Select all

ANIMEGROUP  			 15623    6    10	    	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP      		14343 	6 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP      		13362 	6 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP   		   16111    6 	10  	  	  	  	 	
GROUP           		108 	  6 	10	 	
ANIMEGROUP      		16127 	6 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	15221 	6 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	16020 	6 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13113 	5 	10  	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	631 	  5 	1 	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13750 	5 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13760 	5 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	8209  	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	4913  	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	11584 	4 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	3394  	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	1006  	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	115   	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13813 	4 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	392   	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	1417  	4    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	11922 	4 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	10942 	4 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	15624 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	14111 	3 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	2604  	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	9255  	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	306   	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	3395  	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13138 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	4845  	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	15854 	3 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	12768 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	249   	3    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	12530 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	15222 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	10387 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	15525 	3 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	2498  	3    10	  	  	 	
GROUP              	6   	  2 	1	
ANIMEGROUP         	3596  	2    10	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	11565 	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	41  	  2 	1	
ANIMEGROUP         	305   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	7262  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	1361  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	3046  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	1004  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	230   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	374   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	6129  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	3699  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	3444  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	6773  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	2182  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	391   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	670   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	6802  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	10921 	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	171   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	11695 	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
GROUP              	183   	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	2224  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	2225  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	694   	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	13239 	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	6090  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	2252  	2 	10  	  	  	  	 	
ANIMEGROUP         	5569  	2 	1   	  	  	  	 	
ANIME              	979   	2 	10
(thats only a portion of his votes. there were a couple more hundred fake votes, but i'm too lazy to list them)


actually screw that "not naming the tard and group" bit :twisted:

spot the obvious sticking out

Code: Select all

GROUP 108 6 10	

Code: Select all

[ 03:25:56 ]   [ @DerIdiot ] !group 108
[ 03:25:57 ]   [ @Chii[AR] ] GROUP: Anime HQ [AHQ] (108), irc: #animehq@irc.rizon.net, rating: 8.08 (135 votes), db: 81 animes/3015 files, url: http://www.anime-hq.org, http://anidb.info/g108
now one might expect your random tardy fanboy user to make that vote, but oh no not this time. the creator and voter for those is no one else than "dustmaker" a member of AHQ. yeah go tard :roll:

let me point out at this point the delete system is rather dumbed down and wipes EVERY vote. so even his regular votes went to hell, but do i care? not really. if you do bad things you need to get a kick in the nuts as simple as that. this is also meant to everyone else as a warning. just because we haven't wiped your fakeaccoutn yet doesn't mean we won't at some point. we got our ways to find them and be sure we will!

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nwa
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Post by nwa » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:34 am

anyway, all these issues are well known for us mods and there have been like.. multiple solutions, but nothing myw00d-certain yet... plus it'd take EXP 'some' time to change the system, for the time being, ignore the group votes, I'd hate to say that also ignore the group-per-anime votes, but we're trying to make those work, I mean I end up on the main page of anidb several times a day and I never even look at the Group Stats nor Anime Stats

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Gambit
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Re: time delay before new users can vote

Post by Gambit » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:43 am

lavar wrote:Maybe a user can't vote for the first week after they reg.
Works to keep (some) spam down on doom9.
I`m not against that as a whole since I do see some advantages of it. It shouldn`t stop people from using the MyList though - and after that week they might get an e-mail/PM then to tell them they can vote.

Yet, as KAA-member you shouldn`t criticize other groups - iirc your group was the one which originally came with the idea of using the fanbase to do this AniDB-vote-boosting ;) I was one of the people who warned them about the entire group being removed from voting due to abuse and was criticized by about the entire KAA community. Must be a year or two, three ago since back then I was still an active AniDB moderator.

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Post by AnimeOtaku » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:55 am

I think that only someone can vote (permamently) who has the anime completed in mylist and completed watched it

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Post by egg » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:12 pm

It would be nice if exp wiped the group votes, and replaced them with the animegroup composite scores. Another reason for this is since it requires 10 votes to display the value, frequently it makes it difficult to find a score for a particular group. Frequently, none of the groups has enough votes to display a value, and if you look at the group page that also does not have enough votes. If there was a composite score on the group page from each of the anime that group had subbed, then there may be enough votes to display on the group page...

My father has a saying, "Locks only keep honest people honest." This means that most people who go up to a locked door will leave it. But if someone is determined to break in, then they will find a way. The lock just makes them do more work to get there.

Similarly, adding userlevels will inconvenience some people (for some of my friends I have created a user and put in their votes in the same day so that they could start using the hint), but for the most part will make it annoying for people creating accounts just for voting. That will not stop users from abusing the system, it will just make it more work for them to do so.

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Post by DonGato » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:53 pm

But making things hard is a principle of security as you can't obtain 100% security on IT, so you end making it hard to break as much as you can. :P

Well, you can end some of this madness by simply removing the stats in the main page.
rar, can't you do that with CSS now so exp doesn't need to work? :D

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