[ALL-REQs] Categories (new genre system)

Forum for discussing AniDB rules & standards. No small talk!

Moderator: AniDB

Postby suppy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:59 pm

sjabbie wrote:Genre::Drama::Art instead of Foo::Art::Painting


this is a really old quote (it's from page 6), I'm almost sorry for dragging it up again, but I feel compelled to. Art does _not_ belong under drama. It has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I'd rather put it as
Genre::Art
and also put Cooking under it:
Genre::Art::Cooking
this feels much more correct in my opinion. in any case, if you manage to convince me that art should be under drama, you should not be wasting your time here, you should be running for president.

In response to Amour's Content Indicators::Death I can only say that *** on violence implies it.
suppy
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:37 am
Location: A House of the Azath

Postby sjabbie on Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:39 pm

Drama isn't only about dramatic stuff. It's about everyday life stuff. So Art should fall under Drama. That's what my reasoning ;).

And we don't have a president so I wouldn't even bother going that far -_-;.
User avatar
sjabbie
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby suppy on Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:00 pm

I just had a chat with TechNiko and DerIdiot, and they pointed me in the direction of Themes/Elements/Subjects ... and I must say, that is a much more apt place to put art than as a Genre. I'd rather have it as a Subject than the other two options, though it is something I will look into.

@Sjabbie: heh, I can't say you managed to convince me, so don't give up your dayjob just yet ;)
Art doesn't relate to drama in any way in my opinion; it's something you look at and feel, drama is something that takes place and happens to you (or someone else). Drama is more about character development and interaction - art just hangs there.
suppy
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:37 am
Location: A House of the Azath

Postby sjabbie on Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:40 pm

I've never been good at convincing someone ^^;.
User avatar
sjabbie
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:57 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby Elias on Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:20 am

And i would remove Art from Cooking. What form of art is that? If cooking is art, that art can be also: shooting, kissing, skirts lifting, politics, space traveling ...
I prefer idea of subjects (not connected with genres like now, its much cleaner and avoid problems under which genre place something) from:
http://www.anidb.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ndex:test2
but still cooking (and eating of cooked meals) should be not connected with art.
User avatar
Elias
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:55 pm

Postby PetriW on Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:06 pm

Many consider cooking a form of art, heck just google it. (I'm not saying all cooking is but there's certainly a lot that could be said to be.)
PetriW
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 2:34 pm

Postby Rar on Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:45 pm

I suggested... something.. a while back, here:
  • Skills (or something)
    • Arts
      • Music
        • Idol: SDF Macross, Full Moon o Sagashite
        • Band: Macross 7, Beck
      • Performance: Glass no Kamen, Sennen Joyuu, Kaleido Star, Princess Tutu
      • Visual: Sukeban Deka, Animation Seisaku Shinkou Kuromi-chan, Hitsuji no Uta
      • Writing: Ihatov Gensou, Mimi o Sumaseba, Kaikan Phrase
    • Cooking (yeay!)
    • Sports
Rar
User avatar
Rar
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: UK

Postby exp on Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:39 am

just out of interest, what is the general oppinion so far, are we getting closer to a point where the categories are fairly stable?

BYe!
EXP
User avatar
exp
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2438
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:42 pm
Location: Nowhere

Postby pelican on Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:59 pm

...not really; there's still major upheaval needed, but no-one has had the time/energy/inspiration to do it.
pelican
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:19 pm

Postby fahrenheit on Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:26 pm

pelican wrote:...not really; there's still major upheaval needed, but no-one has had the time/energy/inspiration to do it.


Hmm, i think that's not it, you can add cats to the animes already, but you don't see many animes with cats added to them, and the ones that had cats added don't get many, just a couple of the basic ones.
The problem is in the user, not the system, adding a cat is very different of adding a genre, instead of choosing a couple of genres from a short genre list, you get a huge droplist to add a cat, then to correctly categorize an anime you have to choose tons of cats, and that takes time and an effort that many users just aren't ready to give.
So in the end, the few cats we have were added by mods or by pure hardcore anidb users, because the category system isn't very user friendly, it's like windows vs linux, linux is more powerfull but less user friendly than windows, so people stick to windows.

In my opinion we should freeze the cats, or at least halt it more than it is now, and start working in a way to make the adding of cats more user friendly and intuitive.

Also i know that exp will not like this, but i think the cat display should be moved to the anime page instead of the popup, but by default don't show more than 3 higher rating cats (maybe in a hidden span/div), i once sugest just showing the highest ratting cats and the rest be hidden unless specificaly asked to be viewed, but i don't think that is such a good ideia now, because some of the animes that have cats have 90% of "***" in their categories and the rest is "**+".

Even if the cat system is mainly for searching abilities, if the cat system is not actualy in the public, and remain hidden like what it's like now, it won't serve any purpose except add a couple more rows to the db.

that is just my opinion.
User avatar
fahrenheit
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:43 am
Location: Portugal

Postby nwa on Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:36 pm

celsius is right
and.. uh.. that's all I have to say..

oh yeah, there's 1 more thing, we won't be getting anywhere like this, at first it was just categories, now it's category placement and display, we need to set 1 thing clear before moving on to the next and not shoot info out chaoticaly in every direction, like little atoms spla... er.. yeah...
User avatar
nwa
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:51 am

Postby Andemon on Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:17 am

The current version is a total mess and requires major changes, so I've felt that it's futile to add categories to animes as is. We've added everything and the kitchen sink to the category list, just like exp suggested -- but now nobody seems to have energy left to weed out the useless ones. The whole Characters branch seems pointless, for example.

I personally liked the idea of using themes and elements instead of the current system; too bad that nobody has enough inspiration to continue what TechNiko started... (re: http://www.anidb.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ries:Index )
Andemon
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:12 pm

Postby pelican on Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:58 pm

It wasn't really his idea (he actually had to be pushed into it), but it's at least the right direction. The problem isn't inspiration (I've got plenty of that), it's just work, and low priority for most people.

You can add the current categories to anime (don't worry about silly ones like the characters branch); they won't be lost when the changes are made, just moved.
pelican
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:19 pm

Postby Elias on Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:04 pm

Andemon wrote:I personally liked the idea of using themes and elements instead of the current system; too bad that nobody has enough inspiration to continue what TechNiko started... (re: http://www.anidb.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ries:Index )


I want that implemented right now, why haven't i seen that before?

If categories would not be chained by Genre rooting (but placed instaed under Themes and/or Elements - i personaly dont see reason for making another 2 root categories, but maybe it is one) - there could be added more interesting and useful cats and cats tree could grow fast and large and eventually bring us some fruits (or kittens). Now its rather impossible (already even as simple category as Cooking was problematic under which genre add it).

If we want to have categories usable for differrent purposes, than they have to be large in numbers or we will stick to some small number of them - which was the point from we started.

For displaying/changing categories some filtering could help, like adding to each category weight (category importance?). I think 3 levels would be enough:
*** Very important (those are showed by default in anime page like old genres):
only general genres (all under Genre tree reduced to containing only real genres, but not everything theme/object/attribute related to some genre like is now - all this should be moved somewhere under Themes)
Action
Comedy
Drama
Fantasy
Horror / Thriller
Romance
SciFi
Hentai
and some of subgenres like
-Black Comedy
-Comic Fantasy
-Cyberpunk
and Content indicators
(and thats all, maybe some very, very important category (eg: 18 restricted) can be picked by mods from others roots and be added to this list)

** medium important (showed in anime page if user sets this in prefs, showed by default in add/show category pages, may be used used in Adv search)
- main Themes / Elements cats and mod-selected interesting categories from Characters / Setting / Audience / Themes / Elements / ...

* low important (showed only in display of all categories, hidden by default in add/show category - may be another 'add/show all (including low important) category' page)
- all others

--
Showing cats in anime pages could then in tho (or three if there is Content indicators) lines
Genre (only cats under Genre root)
Categories (all other Very important cats, medium important cats, but only
first xxx (5, 10?) of them, if more then '...'.
Content indicators and 18 restricted can ce added in red if they are added.

Example (Bleach), assuming that Cats, Shinigami as interesting cats have medium importance:
Genre: Action, Comedy
Categories: Shounen, Cats, Shinigami, Super Power, Swordplay, ... [show all]
User avatar
Elias
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:55 pm

Postby Wlah on Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:39 pm

Considering the fact that nothing has happened in this thread since january, I suggest we take a slightly different approach.

The way I see it categories are simply too big to properly grasp at once.
Making clear lines as to what to focus on would probably be a better idea.

So I suggest we (somehow) start from scratch and decide what the most basic main categories should be. By main I mean the first.
Once we've made a solid and proper set of main categories we focus on one those at a time, adding sub categories to it.

I suggest we only use abstract terms for main categories, ie something that can't be added to an anime by itself. Like "Elements" or such.

This is a list of some of the current main categories I think we should continue building on. I've split it to make it easier to distinct.

Categories giving specific information about content IN the anime
    Setting
    Elements
    Themes

Categories telling something based on the above categories and/or giving extra information. (e.g origins)
    Target Audience
    Content Indicators
    Original Work



Comments (and suggestions for additions) please.
Remember that this is a SUGGESTION, I'm merely asking for your opinion here.
Wlah
AniDB Staff
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:58 pm
Location: Denmark

PreviousNext

Return to AniDB Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron